We need to take care of the poor and needy. Most everyone agrees with this concept. Some people put their money where their mouth is, others sit and whine and demand higher taxes from other people.
Let’s take a general look at who and where these people are who make their actions and deeds match their words, and who and where the rhetoric doesn’t match their deeds.
A new study is out which breaks down chartable donations by states, as a percentage of disposable income. Here is the methodology. The results can be found here.
Let’s go to this map…….
Now we’ll display the results, and let’s play the matching game!! And see who does what and who wishes to obligate others to do what they say needs done.
That’s weird, you have to go all the way to #10 before you get to a state with the color blue?!?!?!?!?! Weirder yet, from the bottom up you have to go to #43 before one gets to a state colored red?!?!??!?!?!?! What could all this possibly mean?
suyts space 
Wow you’ve just showed us how the bible-thumping states give huge amounts of money to their churches. BIG SURPRISE! Aren’t they hoping for something 100 virgins when they die etc?
Since you enthusiastically admit to suckling the Governments teat, I wonder, are we paying you to blog during normal work hours?
Are you blogging on a computer we pay for?
More drivel, from the drivel master!
ThePhDScientist says:
August 21, 2012 at 9:43 am
More drivel, from the drivel master!
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Donja just hate getting SPANKED by a kid?
Did you forget the Question?
Lol, Ph, I think you’re confused about a lot of things. But, this is IRS data, showing what it shows. Yeh, some of the charity is given to a church, which provides food pantries, homeless shelters, utility payments for the poor. Other charities are directly provided for. What do the blue states do? Whine, cry, picket and demand higher taxes.
Spend less time in church?
Or provide most of the fiscal, education, and technological advances in the country?
Or perhaps just being able to do math and being literate? Ole Miss ranks with Russia and Bulgaria in literacy…
Click to access PEPG11-03_GloballyChallenged.pdf
Nice strawman. How do charities relate to technological advancements and literacy?
ThePhDScientist says:
August 21, 2012 at 9:47 am
Or provide most of the fiscal, education, and technological advances in the country?
Or perhaps just being able to do math and being literate?
xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Or learn about logic and reasoning?
http://carm.org/logical-fallacies-or-fallacies-argumentation
Tell me, where do you rank? 🙂
Well yes, they’re too busy crying and demanding other people do something instead of doing it themselves.
Like piglets, they are too busy suckling Government teat.
Have you ever known a piglet to give up, voluntarily, it’s teat?
Haha Kim2ooo more tried and true terminology – never gets old does it?
ThePhDScientist says:
August 21, 2012 at 9:54 am
Haha Kim2ooo more tried and true terminology – never gets old does it?
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Ha ha ha ha…. If you don’t want to wear the shoes…don’t.
I’m certainly not forcing you to suckle.
Oh Kim I’m not paid by the government, but even if I was nothing at all wrong with that. If we didn’t have government sponsored science, you wouldn’t have been able to develop into the old hague you’ve become! 😉
ThePhDScientist says:
August 21, 2012 at 10:07 am
Oh Kim I’m not paid by the government, but even if I was nothing at all wrong with that. If we didn’t have government sponsored science, you wouldn’t have been able to develop into the old hague you’ve become!
xxxxxxxxxxxx
Oh , I’m an old hague because I can rationally use logic?
Shhhhhhhh..- I learned to use logic and HOW to think – NOT WHAT to think – .I didn’t learn it in public school. 🙂
You asked what the blue states do and I just told you, they provide the economic engine for the country!
No, just the welfare queens for the country.
The blue states give much less to churches and so their overall giving is less than those in the bible belt states. No big surprise. What’s the point?
They give less. Not just less to churches, but they give less. That’s the point. Instead of helping their neighbor, they’re more inclined to seek a tax hike on someone else.
Or at least that’s the implication… .no?
They give LESS – PERIOD!
Show me where the difference is not just accounted for by donations to religious organizations. Why do you think Utah is number one – got nothing to do with the Mormon church? Come on, use that right-wing brain!
You to Kim2ooo – help him out! Maybe 2 or 3 right wing brains will equal that of one normal person.
ThePhDScientist says:
August 21, 2012 at 10:02 am
You to Kim2ooo – help him out! Maybe 2 or 3 right wing brains will equal that of one normal person.
xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Surely, you can’t be implying that YOU are Normal? Most NORMAL people aren’t on the government teat AND understand logic for dummies.
You made the Claim…provide the evidence to support it The onus is on you.
Here’s the Methodology PhD
http://philanthropy.com/article/How-The-Chronicle-Compiled-Its/133667/
Yup Kim2ooo I can read, that’s how I knew they didn’t separate out church giving from other charitable donations. Try it some time!
“The IRS releases total amounts donated, but to protect privacy, the agency does not provide data about the specific charities people supported”
So again we’ve got bible-thumpers supporting their churches and perhaps giving extra dollars to stop the evils of gay marriage and abortion, while the blue states are a little more sophisticated and not engaging in this such that their total contribution is less. Again, I ask “IS THIS NEWS?”
ThePhDScientist says:
So again we’ve got bible-thumpers supporting their churches and perhaps giving extra dollars to stop the evils of gay marriage and abortion, while the blue states are a little more sophisticated and not engaging in this such that their total contribution is less.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Produce your evidence.
Without observation empirical evidence; You’re either being willfully ignorant or ignorantly willful.
.
Arguments containing bad inferences, i.e. inferences where the premises don’t give adequate support for the conclusion drawn, can certainly be called fallacious.
Show me evidence I’m wrong! I didn’t make the post implying Blue states give less to charity! The onus is on you to prove this is not simply made up for by hugely increased giving to the church.
Case in point UTAH!!!! Number 1 on this list!!!?
Read the writing on the wall!
Ph, Kim didn’t make the post, either.
By you I meant all right wing ideologues who post here. Which is basically everyone but me and maybe Kelly 😉
I don’t disagree that the red states give more to the churches than blue. But, as I stated earlier, churches, provide food pantries, homeless shelters, utility payments for the poor. Other charities are directly provided for.
Your characterization of what the money goes towards displays a certain expected ignorance of the work of most churches. Again, the study shows red state people give more to charity than blue state. Which includes churches. For some reason you don’t seem to think food pantries run by churches are legitimate.
ThePhDScientist says:
August 21, 2012 at 10:46 am
Show me evidence I’m wrong! I didn’t make the post implying Blue states give less to charity! The onus is on you to prove this is not simply made up for by hugely increased giving to the church.
Case in point UTAH!!!! Number 1 on this list!!!?
Read the writing on the wall!
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Well…genius.I can show you where your claims are wrong 🙂
Let’s use your own post, shall we?
ThePhDScientist says:
August 21, 2012 at 10:14 am
“The IRS releases total amounts donated, but to protect privacy, the agency does not provide data about the specific charities people supported”
YOU CAN’T SUPPORT YOUR CLAIM!
YOUR CLAIM:
ThePhDScientist says:
August 21, 2012 at 10:14 am
So again we’ve got bible-thumpers supporting their churches and perhaps giving extra dollars to stop the evils of gay marriage and abortion, while the blue states are a little more sophisticated and not engaging in this such that their total contribution is less. Again, I ask “IS THIS NEWS?”
I know reading comprehension is an acquired skill – but try to follow along.
“By you I meant all right wing ideologues who post here. Which is basically everyone but me and maybe Kelly ”
An ideologue is one that will not listen to reason no matter how compelling and I wouldn’t actually put anyone in that box completely but maybe on certain issues. Maybe you could call me an ideologue with regard to fiscal conservatism because in democratic systems it seems to fail regularly and I can’t see how to overcome this. I accept this though and still think it is something worth fighting for. PhD are you an ideologue? Lets take the religious issue do you accept that church charities often do a lot of good? I am not religious but can tell the difference between the harm churches have done on occassion and the good they do.
Yes Kelly I agree churches are a necessary evil. They do a lot of good and a lot of harm!
Assumption not supported by the facts presented. Can you supply some sourcing for your assumption? Or are we to dismiss your rantings as just more ignorance on your part?
Nope, phd, you are confounding Christians with Islamists. Not only that, the people living in the charitable donation states give generously to other charities too.
Oh show me where Church donations are separated out from other charitable giving?
P.S. To your first statement, I know 😉
You, phd, made the statement that implied that the charitable donations were to churches only. So stick it where the sun doesn’t shine.
I meant your statement saying I was confusing Christians with Islamists 😉
Duh phd. You didn’t get it. Christians do not expect 100 virgins in Heaven. Christians expect to be with God, and being with God is the reward. Islamists tell folk that they’ll get virgins if they are martyred.
LoL 😀
Rasmussen says Romney leads Obama by 20 percent points amongst entrepreneurs, while Obama leads Romney by 17 percent points amongst government workers.
This gives me the hunch
a) that The “PhdScientist” isn’t an entrepreneur.
b) that the US is f***ed.
Naw, we’re only “messed up” if Obama somehow manages to get re-elected.
Well since none of you rank among the 1% I’m guessing you’re putting a whole lot of stock in that trickle down theory, eh?
Are you a government worker, The”PhdScientist”?
Not that it matters in the least, but no Dirk I am not.
Then why are you a statist?
Lol….. read this …. https://suyts.wordpress.com/2012/06/24/if-the-trickle-down-theory-is-silly-how-much-more-preposterous-is-the-trickle-up-proposition/
Ph, I don’t engage in class envy. I really don’t care how much my neighbor makes. It doesn’t have a bearing on how much I can make.
Really I have a problem paying a higher percent in taxes than Mitt Romney when he makes orders of magnitude more money than I do.
How is that a fair system encouraging job creation?
It’s the wrong question. The idea of taxes is inherently unfair. But, fairness is not the purpose for taxes.
Clearly, the most encouraging tax rate for job creation in any sector would be 0%.
To be clear, though, my thoughts on tax rates would be different than Ryan’s and Romney’s, so it’s a bit difficult for me to defend perspectives I don’t agree with.
Still, it seems to me that most people conflate several issues when discussing taxes. Bush tax cuts vs Capital gains taxes and that schedule vs earned dividends vs SS and medical….. they’re all different and all related and mangled.
One of the things I like about Ryan’s plan is that he simplifies the tax schedule. Maybe the percentages could change, but it’s the proper approach.
If we consider that the function of taxes is to run the government and not to redistribute wealth, then the solutions look entirely different.
Right because right now we’re redistributing my wealth to Mitt Romney. As he earns 8 figures per year and I’m lucky enough to be barely hitting 6 figures and paying a higher percentage of my wealth so that we can run the government while keeping hist capital gains at 15%…
So, you think Mitt or anyone else is taking some of your money by paying more in real value than you? You’re going to have to run that by me as to how that works.
suyts says:
August 21, 2012 at 5:50 pm
So, you think Mitt or anyone else is taking some of your money by paying more in real value than you? You’re going to have to run that by me as to how that works.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Ha ha ha ha 🙂
DirkH says:
August 21, 2012 at 1:03 pm
Then why are you a statist?
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
🙂
We know that pH doesn’t like this post. You should post more like it, and maybe we’ll hear his head explode.
Jim
Lol, I think it is now….
No I loved this post and all the many things wrong with it!
There is nothing wrong with the post. It is short, factual, and dry. Your misassumptions about the post is what is wrong with it. You have yet to provide any evidence to back up your misassumptions.
But please tell us what is wrong with the post?
Reblogged this on Climate Ponderings.
It’s not worth my time to wade through all the crap comments above. If Dr. credentials is really interested in this behavior, he should read this article I found quite some time ago when interested in the subject:
Notably:
and:
-Scott
🙂
Thanks for the link!
But Scott, how come you left this out?? From your article….
Notably,
It’s true that religion is the essential reason conservatives give more, and religious liberals are as generous as religious conservatives. Among the stingiest of the stingy are secular conservatives.
and:
(Looking away from politics, there’s evidence that one of the most generous groups in America is gays. Researchers believe that is because they are less likely to have rapacious heirs pushing to keep wealth in the family.)
So following the logic that was implied in the original posting we would have to conclude that conservatives who don’t believe in God are the worst of the worst people. And that GAYS are the best people around!
(wow PhilJourdan is really going to hate that!)
ThePhDScientist says:
August 21, 2012 at 3:54 pm
‘So following the logic that was implied in the original posting we would have to conclude that conservatives who don’t believe in God are the worst of the worst people. And that GAYS are the best people around!”
xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Well…. your attempt at logic might have a chance IF ALL GAYS didn’t believe in God or had / held Religious beliefs.
Non Sequitur – Comments or information that do not logically follow from a premise or the conclusion.
Example: We know why it rained today: because I washed my car.
http://carm.org/logical-fallacies-or-fallacies-argumentation
And the drivel continues to flow…
BTW Kim are you only against logic when it doesn’t agree with your ideals?
ThePhDScientist says:
August 21, 2012 at 4:38 pm
BTW Kim are you only against logic when it doesn’t agree with your ideals?
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Ha ha ha ha 🙂
When you are able to present a logical, coherent thought or idea – I’ll let you know.
ThePhDScientist says:
August 21, 2012 at 4:38 pm
BTW Kim are you only against logic when it doesn’t agree with your ideals?
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
As usual, you inferences are wrong!
You see, I’m not against logic – I’ve been trying to get you to use rational logic.
Dr. Credentials,
Thanks for your comments. However, your logic fallacies are sad. I’ll examine it piece by piece…
ThePhDScientist says:
August 21, 2012 at 3:54 pm
This one is simple to refute because the whole topic of religion is a red herring…you brought it up to try to support your viewpoint. Of course, your claims are refuted by the very next paragraph:
So it’s more complete to say that conservatives give more even excluding religious giving, and when including those donations, conservatives win by even a larger margin. Considering I’d already quoted that paragraph and it comes right after the text you quoted, I can’t help but suspect that you’re cherry picking text out of context.
Next you say:
Multiple fails on the logic here. The first is obvious…bringing up sexual orientation is another red herring that has nothing to do with the original discussion. The second fail is that you indicate that the original post says that people who don’t give are “bad” and those that do are “good”, where no such argument was made…just invented by you I guess.
Of course, non-believing liberals would probably have the highest percentage of homosexuals, so it sure does bring up a conundrum there…I guess heterosexual/liberal/nonbelievers must give far, far less than the average conservatives if they include the highest percentage of “one of the most generous groups” and still can’t take down the conservatives.
Finally, since you brought up gays, I’d be interested to see what the numbers look like if giving to family was included and not just charities. I could easily see the difference in hetero/homosexual giving being explained by the higher percentage of homosexuals being estranged from their families (a fact I don’t like, but a fact nonetheless) and therefore giving to charities in place of inheritance…though I don’t think it has much to do with “rapacious heirs”. Additionally, I’d like to see the numbers for the “stingiest” category, nonbelievers/conservatives, vs nonbelievers/liberals with homosexuals removed from both categories to help correct for the artifact induced by increased family estrangement in the homosexual population. Would nonbelieving conservatives still be the “stingiest”?
-Scott
Outstanding Scott! Be careful, or you will be inhabiting his head shortly as well.
Still occupying your head! I love it! I have never occupied anyone’s head before. It provides me great amusement!
Which organizations do you think gays are donating the most money to? You think it’s the National Catholic Diocese? If you believe that you probably also believe that Utah doesn’t rank first on this list because of donations rolling into the mormon church!
Ph, you realize this post was about politics, not sexual orientation. Yes, church goers give more than the secular community. That’s because we’re more charity oriented. Towards the non-religious conservatives, and going with your assumption that homosexuals are not religious, what does that say about the Log Cabin Republicans?
He hates gays so much, he must continually interject his hatred of them in every topic.
ThePhDScientist says:
August 21, 2012 at 5:15 pm
Which organizations do you think gays are donating the most money to?
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Who cares?
YOU don’t know.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
ThePhDScientist says:
August 21, 2012 at 5:15 pm
If you believe that you probably also believe that Utah doesn’t rank first on this list because of donations rolling into the mormon church!
xxxxxxxxxxxx
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LDS_Humanitarian_Services
LDS Humanitarian Initiatives
Emergency Response is the part of the LDS Church’s humanitarian efforts of which most people are aware. Funds and supplies in this area are used to help victims of natural
disasters such as earthquakes, floods, droughts, tornadoes, and hurricanes, as well as other disasters such as wars or political unrest. Supplies in this area are gathered and stored before a crisis so supplies can be sent literally within hours of an emergency. Volunteers are also on call so if they are needed they can be reached and organized within a few hours. The LDS Church is renowned for its ability to organize its members in various regions of the world to respond to emergency and facilitate distributing goods immediately after a crisis, often before aid programs such as the Red Cross or the Salvation Army come to assist. In 2008, the LDS Church responded to 124 disasters in 48 countries.[2]
Wheelchair Distribution is another program of the LDS Church crucial to helping those in need. Studies estimate that only one percent of the disabled in the world have wheelchairs. For the rest, being without a wheelchair means for adults that they can not provide for themselves or their families, and for children it often means not being able to attend school. By providing wheelchairs to those in need, the LDS Church hopes to help people become more self-reliant which is an important tenant of LDS beliefs.[3]
The Clean Water Service provides clean water and wells to people who otherwise would most likely contract deadly diseases because of the dirty water. It is estimated that one billion people lack clean water. The clean water program is designed to partner with local community agencies to provide sustainable clean water.[4]
The Neonatal Resuscitation program sends doctors and volunteers to areas where infant mortality rate is high. They are able to teach people in the area how to resuscitate newborns as well as provide simple medical equipment. This service is greatly needed as it is estimated that nearly 1 million newborns die each year due to birth difficulties. Up to 10% of newborns have breathing difficulties.[5]
The Vision Treatment Training program teaches facilities and medical personnel in developing countries how to treat preventable or reversible blindness. There are 37 million people in the world who are blind, and up to 75 % of blindness is treatable. The vision care program works with local vision health care centers to help treat and prevent blindness for the poor.[6]
In addition to these efforts, the LDS Church also has over 300 job development and placement centers around the world. In 2001, the LDS Church began the Perpetual Education Fund which provides money to cover tuition and other school expenses to people in developing nations. As of 2007, tens of thousands of individuals had been given assistance. So far this program has operated primarily in South America and Oceana. The LDS Church has also begun producing a nutrition-rich porridge named Atmit to help during acute famines. The LDS Church Welfare program owns farms, ranches, canneries, and other food producing facilities to provide temporary food relief for families and individuals. LDS Humanitarian Services frequently works with other charities and NGOs such as the Red Cross, Catholic charities and even various Islamic charities for which the LDS Church has produced halaal food.[7]
You really need to get of of your bigoted bicycle….. It feeds your fear.
Of course we do – gays are some of the biggest contributors to HIV organizations like the Ryan White Foundation and to equal rights groups like the Human Right’s Campaign. Look it up!!!
And according to the implications of this original posting since they donate the largest percent of money they would be deemed the best people. As that was the subtle assertion our friend Suyts was trying to make with his blue state/red state rhetoric…
Again, this post didn’t have anything to do with sexual orientation. It has to do with politics and the concept of charity verses demanding higher taxes for other people.
Further, I did not imply “better” people. Rather, a more just and sane perspective.
ThePhDScientist says:
August 21, 2012 at 5:37 pm
Of course we do – gays are some of the biggest contributors to HIV organizations like the Ryan White Foundation and to equal rights groups like the Human Right’s Campaign. Look it up!!!
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Soooooo…it’s O’kay to donate to those groups that support your interests?
BUT it’s NOT O’kay for groups to donate to those groups that support THEIR interests?
You are a jewel, of illogical thought. 🙂
LoL I’m well aware of the humanitarian missions of the LDS church. I’m also well aware of the millions they poured into the Prop Hate Campaign. So what’s your point?
From 1985 – 2009, $327.6 million in cash and $884.6 million in commodities of aid was given throughout 178 countries.[8
That’s an impressive amount of charity.
Wisconsin is Romney’s. Wisconsin will go with Ryan. Democrats and leftists don’t understand why.
And, he’s taking Michigan with him!!! https://suyts.wordpress.com/2012/08/21/lol-at-huffpo/
The county I’m originally from in Michigan went for Obama—lots of union folk there. Even though the population of the town I’m from has gone down because some factories moved out of America (my high school graduating class was 275 students, three years ago there was 150) they still went for Obama. They must have been blaming Bush for those factories leaving and thought Obama was their “Hope and Change”. They couldn’t see he doesn’t like Americans and their mainly middle class lifestyle. That county will likely be red this time.
I know God can save them. And they don’t have to wait four years to vote to elect him their leader. 🙂
Pingback: Lightning Round – 2012/08/22 « Free Northerner
Better try to jump start your own brain. The issue of where the money goes was made by you. It is therefore your responsibilty to prove your assertions. Can you do that?
Logic Error #1 – NO ONE made a post IMPLYING anything about blue states. Suyts presented empirical evidence showing that blue states give less. Period.
Logic Error #2 – YOU phd made the claim that the extra giving was due to giving to Churches. The data presented in the article does not support that conclusion. It is therefore up to YOU to prove what the extra giving is for. YOU made the claim. YOU have to support it.
Logic Error #3 – No one is writing on a wall. Stop acting childish, clean your wall, and present your evidence.
3 errors in almost as few sentences. I can see why johnny junior scientist cannot read.
You contradict yourself. You were asked a yes or no question. You answered yes AND no. IN other words, you failed logic 101 again.
I am sorry Kelly that he associated himself with you. I enjoy reading your posts. While I do not agree with all of them, they are thought provoking and intelligent. And worthy of reading regardless of the readers own beliefs.
phil
PhD is ok just don’t let him/her get you stirred up. In other words only take notice of his/her thoughtful comments not so much the ones that are only designed to get a bite.