Did Trump Change His Immigration Position? …… And About Those “Back Taxes” ……..

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Well, I had other stuff I wanted to get to, but, I think this is big, and I’m very interested in the opinion of the ardent Trump supporters about this.

In case you missed this, Trump recently had a townhall type of event with Shaun Hannity.  During the event Trump made a statement after engaging some questioners.  Here’s the money quote which has the political world abuzz …….

Trump then asked the audience what should be done about people who have been in the US for a long time and has been “terrific.”

After asking this question of his audience two more times, Trump was asked, “So, you’re saying there is — and you have been sort of indicating that there’ll be some flexibility that you — originally you had said they were all out, and there was a big brouhaha, but you’re saying that if somebody can prove that they’ve been here, proven to be a citizen, but here’s the big question, though, no citizenship?”

Trump responded, “No citizenship. Let me go a step further, they’ll pay back taxes, they have to pay taxes, there’s no amnesty as such. There’s no amnesty. But we work with them. Now, okay, but when I look at the rooms, and I have this all over, now everybody agrees we get the bad ones out, but when I go through and I meet thousands and thousands of people on this subject, and I’ve had very strong people come up to me, really great, great people come up to me, and they’ve said, Mr. Trump, I love you, but to take a person that’s been here for 15 or 20 years and throw them and the family out, it’s so tough, Mr. Trump. I mean, I’ve — I have it all the time. It’s a very, very hard thing.”

Trump then polled the audience again, when asked what was in his gut, Trump stated that asking the audience was “like a poll.” And “We are going to come out with a decision very soon.”

All-righty then!

That surely does seem like a change in the stances he’s taken in the past.  Before I go on to the subject of “back taxes”, let me first talk about what isn’t explicitly stated but, very much implied.  …….. You can’t “work with” people to pay their back taxes if you are going to, or have already deported them.  It doesn’t seem like he’s going to be deporting them. 

The example he used, “but to take a person that’s been here for 15 or 20 years……” is almost identical to an argument I’ve made a few times in the past.  Let’s say you have a person who has been here since they were 5 y/o, and they’re now 30 y/o.  Where are you going to send this person back to?  Do they even speak the language?  One can’t morally do that.  So, in that sense, I support what Trump stated.  But, now, we’re suddenly back to the discussion as to what is, or isn’t amnesty.  And, as many talking heads have already pointed out, this is very similar to the stated positions of Bush and Rubio. 

IMHO, Trump didn’t do himself any favors by articulating this thought in this manner at this time.  What he now needs to do is clarify and come out with a position which makes the distinction.  First and foremost, he has to reaffirm that the wall is coming up first!  He has to state this …….’there are no deals until the wall is up!’  Then we sort out what we do with the ones here.  I would also state something akin to, ‘if you came here as an adult’ and then put a time limit ……. ‘you been here five or ten years, you’re out!’.   If someone came here at 20 y/o and are 60 y/o now …… well, again, what would we be sending them back to? 

At any rate, I’m very interested in what other Trump supporters think of this. 

But, let me now go a bit tangential.  ………. !@$%$#^@$%^$@^!(&^@#%^)(@  “back taxes”!!!!!!  That’s got to be the most shallow bit of idiocy I’ve seen from Trump, so far!  And, no, I’m not being overly harsh.  But, I will explain.

Someone please tell me what the average annual income for an illegal immigrant is?  Do we believe it’s a) well above the median income of the average American, or b) so low as to if they actually filed income taxes that the overwhelming majority of the illegals would then receive an extra payday?  Look, unless we’re talking about an entirely different set of income tax codes for illegals we’re talking about cutting a few $billion check for the illegals! 

For those who don’t know, the poor in this country not only don’t pay taxes, they get free money for being poor come income tax time.  I’ve people.  Some are poor, others not so much.  The poor will tell me how much they “got back” from their income taxes.  It always exceeds how much they actually paid in.  Indeed, for one family the money they “got back” nearly exceeded their total income for the year!  99.999% of the illegals would fall into the described category.  It sounds cool, but, it’s a shallow, shallow thought which demonstrates lack of familiarity with what’s really going on with our tax laws. 

In other Trump news, from a Trump skeptical site (they’re not never Trumpers, but, not fans, either.) 

Oh My: Trump Leads in Consecutive Florida Polls

Someone on team Trump is thinking and thinking well.  Some were critical of Trump’s swing through the south, starting with La, then Texas, then, Miss, then Florida.  It’s smart.  It solidifies the base and then moves to disputed territory.  I wish I kept the article handy, but, in one it stated that the Hispanic vote in Florida is what bounced Trump up.  It pretty much validated what I stated in an earlier post about Florida and Hispanics.  At any rate, as noted in one of the other articles I’ve read, none of this really means that much.  It’s the debates which will tell the tale.  On paper, Hillary would have the advantage in such debates.  She had one on one debates with Bernie.  Trump’s debate experience came from a crowded stage; it’s very different.  But, with Hillary, I think it would be very easy to win each and every debate.  There’s not a punch she’s thrown so far which can’t be easily swatted away and easily deliver a great counter-punch.  For instance, the press likes to call Trump a liar.  I find that fascinating.  And, Hillary is a beacon of truth?  Yeh, let’s have a discussion on honesty in a debate.  Taxes?  How much did the Clinton Foundation pay?  Racist supporters is another thing Hillary likes to bring up …….. Huma?  Orlando shooters dad?  Heck, just look at all the unscrupulous characters who donated to the Clinton Foundation!  Transparency?  Experience, though, that’ll win, right?  Not if you let her paint herself as the “status quo”, which she happily will!  On and on, there’s not a thing she can throw which doesn’t come back in spades. ……… If, and only if, Trump does his homework and can relate a detailed knowledge of the things he speaks about.  Then, he wins the debates, then he wins the presidency. 

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64 Responses to Did Trump Change His Immigration Position? …… And About Those “Back Taxes” ……..

  1. Latitude says:

    I’ve been telling you…all the hispanics I know are for Trump
    The illegals don’t count, won’t vote because they are afraid of getting caught.

    ..and there’s a run on down here for citizenship

    Problem is, for all these years they had absolutely no incentive to get it…not it’s get it or get gone
    about time….

  2. leftinflagstaff says:

    Of course they should all go. They owe us morally, not the opposite as you stated. As any criminal owes their victim. I’m sure you agree that each of their actions have negatively effected a US citizen, if only minutely. We bare zero burden for what situation they would return to. Even if brought young by their parents, that burden again, only belongs to those parents.

    Now, is it completely doable? Of course not. Putting a stop to any more was always the most important. Which will probably never happen either, because we somehow morally ‘owe them.’

    • suyts says:

      Leftin, thank you. Your comment led me to be able to articulate thoughts I had not otherwise been able to do. I won’t at the moment because I’ll want to rethink, again. But, for the moment, I would say that I agree. We don’t owe them a damned thing. To the contrary, we are owed. But, it’s a debt which cannot possibly be repaid.

      I don’t believe in a concept of ‘morally owed’. There is morality, and there isn’t. It isn’t about owed or not owed. It’s about right or wrong. That isn’t to say I believe it’s always an easy call.
      But, towards your point ….. “putting a stop to any more” ….. I entirely agree! It has to stop, or we, as a nation, as a people, will cease to be.

      But, for this post, I was more interested in your reaction to what Trump had to say, rather than what I had to say.

      • leftinflagstaff says:

        And, the wrong was committed by those who broke our immigration law.

        The call on right and wrong should usually be decided on the reality of the situation. A late 1800s America on the cusp of an industrial revolution? Sure, give ’em a pass. An America with 50% Black American citizens unemployed? Uh, no. A different answer for what’s right.

        As for Trump, yeah, we’re seeing a non-politician learn the ways of politics. Unfortunately, probably.

      • suyts says:

        There’s nothing you wrote in which I disagree. But, that’s not the reality in totality. The person who came here as a young minor because of their parents who is now 30-55 y/o. You’d really send them back to Honduras or Venezuela? I would not advocate such.

        • leftinflagstaff says:

          It’s seen as immoral. I get it. But, they weren’t just brought here illegally. They stayed illegally. That’s on them. And, illegally and immorally, they stole work, opportunity, and/or resources that belong to someone else. For decades.

        • leftinflagstaff says:

          I would advocate such as that.

        • leftinflagstaff says:

          •not advocate

        • suyts says:

          Hmm….. so a 5 y/o, raised here in the U.S., come to age at …..say 18 y/o ….. even if they understood they were violating US law, …… how would you expect them to respond? What’s the reasonable expectation? Would it really be immoral for them to try and stay in the only country they’ve ever known?

        • leftinflagstaff says:

          I wouldn’t expect them to. And it would be immoral.

          There was a recent story about a Yale valedictorian announcing her illegal status during the ceremony. Probably go on to a great career. Brought in as a child. Sounds like an immigration success story. Until you realize she took a spot at Yale that some American will never have, and a career opportunity that belongs to a citizen.

          A citizen who must bear the burden of her being ‘brought in illegally at 5.’ Which is more immoral? Putting Americans first again, demands we do it morally, as well.

        • cdquarles says:

          Repeal the 1965 and subsequent laws and revert to the laws of the 1950s. Folk who are here illegally by their own acts must leave. Once vetted, we might let you back in if you want citizenship, but you go to the back of the line. Back taxes? Sure, if you owe them. Never filed but worked? There should be some I9s and W2s and such, so get audited. The rest of us are subject to audits, so should you. Those brought in illegally by their parents, that one’s tougher. If the parents are still here, you leave. If you want citizenship you apply and maybe we let you back in but you’re at the back of the line. Look, it is like this. An American who commits a crime and gets caught faces the music. This will hurt others to a lesser or greater degree, but JUSTICE demands it. Equality under God and Before the Law.

  3. Welcome to Seattle Cowboys, I hope you lose!

    Jim

  4. TG says:

    How about this ABC live poll?
    Who are you Voting for? ABC the leftist dream network?

    Donald Trump (71%, 117,336 Votes)
    Gary Johnson (11%, 17,719 Votes)
    Jill Stein (10%, 15,923 Votes)
    Hillary Clinton (9%, 14,409 Votes)
    Darrell Castle (1%, 843 Votes)
    Total Voters: 166,230
    https://www.aufamily.com/forums/topic/152189-abc-news-live-poll-vote-now/
    Update: Total voter count was over 200,000.
    ************************************************************************
    ABC news takes down “Live Poll” after Hillary SQUASHED!
    Huge Anomaly In ABC Live Poll!! Trump At 70%! Hillary 8%! Undeniable Proof!! Media Is A Fraud!!
    Trump kicking Hillary’s butt! ABC News has been running a live poll for a few weeks where you can vote for your pick for President. I have been following this poll webpage for the past few days and the Total voter count was over 200,000. This morning when I tried to go to the site I was redirected to a GoDaddy Ad page. ABC News has taken the page down! Surprise Surprise!
    http://www.discussionist.com/1015976590

    • Latitude says:

      TG that’s a fake poll.

      Here’s the problem they are having with the real polls.
      Conservatives don’t poll.
      People polling for Hillary are not being threatened, followed home, hunted down, and spit on…
      They will poll.

      Polls try to get close to the same amount of each group….democrats, republicans, independents..
      Say they want 300 of each.
      They can get 300 democrat Hillary supporters to poll easy.

      …but they might have to call 1000 Trump supporters to get their 300

      That’s what throws the polls off and it’s why they are not showing what’s really happening.

      Hundreds show up to hear Hillary…
      ..thousands show up to hear Trump

  5. philjourdan says:

    #1 – “Sean” Hannity.
    #2 – Most of the Trumpers do not care. That is not why they support him (for some, it may have been the reason they jumped on at first, but then Cruz was saying the same thing also)
    #3 – Personally, I like the moderation. But then I am not voting for him because of his illegals stand. You know why I am.

    • suyts says:

      Yes, Sean, not Shaun. My bust. But, I think it was poorly timed, poorly worded.

      Your comment about Cruz is something which is curious. You’re 100% correct. Yet, the Trump campaign was able to shade him as an establishment Repub. IOW, outsider vs establishment. Now, it seems they’re not nearly as effective as making the same argument against Hillary. It’s weird. Cruz is hated by the establishment, Hillary is loved by the establishment. But, they can’t seem to make it stick, not yet, anyway.

      • philjourdan says:

        I honestly do not recall what Trump said about Cruz (other than the nasty father fight), and now have no inclination to research it. As I have said, I was a big Cruz supporter, and when he lost, I moved to Trump. It would make sense that Trump try to paint Cruz that way – so he could claim the anti-establishment mantle, but anecdotal evidence indicates that is not the reason he won. However, when you combine Trump and Cruz (which to the establishment are the anti candidates), you clearly see a large majority of the republican base wants the leadership gone.

        The only surprise is that the leadership does not see that as even a blind man can.

      • Latitude says:

        I think you guys are missing something here.
        They hate Cruz…but they don’t fear him…not afraid of him one bit
        They would have run all over him….and did and were

        Trump they can’t….and that’s what scares them

        Trump painting Cruz as “establishment” made that clear

        • suyts says:

          As Cruz got full credit/blame for shutting down the government? My perspective is that they were less afraid of Trump than Cruz. Did it ever seem curious to you that Kasich only got out after Cruz quit? The very next day. Kasich,the “establishment” rep never had a chance in heck. He was there, financed and supported by the establishment until Cruz quit.

        • Latitude says:

          yep….100%
          But that was when they didn’t think Trump had any chance. Trump and Cruz had knocked out the rest of them….and they were trying to knock out Cruz and get Rubio or Bush back.
          But you’re right, they thought Trump would self destruct…so at that time, they were less afraid of Trump.

          I still don’t see them scared of Cruz….they were ganging up on him already.

          Ganging up on Trump has the total opposite effect….the perception of Cruz is that he’s still establishment…..and no one likes him
          The perception of Trump is he’s not establishment on either party….and they are not supposed to like him

          Remember what I’ve always said……the wrong people are telling me to not vote for Trump

        • leftinflagstaff says:

          Fair or not, Cruz was already ‘in’ , as in holding political office. The people weren’t having it.

        • Latitude says:

          pretty much….
          Their attacks on Cruz were we’re tried to work with him….no one in both houses like him
          That set him up as establishment

          But they didn’t see Trump coming…they thought that they had it all sewed up…get rid of Cruz…no other choices…and get one of their alter boys in there

          Trump totally blindsided them…and now their attacks on Trump are just making him look better

        • >>
          Remember what I’ve always said……the wrong people are telling me to not vote for Trump
          <<

          The reverse is true too–the wrong people are telling me TO vote FOR Trump.

          I wrote three things down about Trump at the start of the primaries:
          1) progressive tax;
          2) Obama-care; and
          3) Planned Parenthood.

          These were all things Trump made favorable comments about–he was FOR them. It reminds me of John Kerry and his: “I was for it before I was against it” statement.

          The posters here (including our host) want to dump the Republican Party and start a new party because–the Republicans aren’t conservative enough? Really? And now Trump is your man? Really?

          How about this quote?
          (https://suyts.wordpress.com/2015/08/08/sigh-another-campaign-another-repub-self-inflicted-wound/#comment-163820)
          >>
          Latitude says:
          August 10, 2015 at 7:46 am

          People are not that stupid….Trump is not that stupid
          He knows if he does that his entire base will turn against him.
          Trump likes the popularity…he depends on it…he’s not about to kill it
          <<

          Trump is moving away from his immigration plan. Are his followers going to turn against him? I think not.

          Jim

        • Latitude says:

          Jim….just go on and vote for Hillary

        • Hillary’s not a choice for me. Thanks to Trump supporters we have the worst candidate to run against her. I hope we don’t lose both houses of Congress too.

          Jim

        • Latitude says:

          yeah I know…he’s not black enough

        • It’s interesting that you haven’t addressed one point I’ve made. You forgot to call me a liar. That’s what everyone else on this site does.

          I’ve said that Trump is not a conservative. I think he’s made a deal with the Clintons to get Hillary elected. Nothing so far has changed my mind on either possibility.

          Medved says you have to be really smart to pull a conspiracy like that off. I think Trump only needs to act like Trump to pull off that particular con.

          Jim

        • Latitude says:

          I don’t care about your points…

          With everything going on with the Clintons…I can’t believe anyone is even talking about Trump

          Sounds like entitleitus inner city blacks….he’s not black enough

        • leftinflagstaff says:

          Or not ‘Jim’ enough. Those damn record amount of primary voters. Got your work cut out for you, Jim. That’s a lot of people to think you’re better than.

        • >>
          Or not ‘Jim’ enough.
          <<

          They say we get the government we deserve. I don’t think we deserve the government we’re going to get. I’m sorry you don’t agree.

          >>
          Those damn record amount of primary voters.
          <<

          That’s how we got McCain and Romney–you know, those guys you’re so fond of.

          Jim

        • Latitude says:

          No we got Obama because McCain and Romney were not good enough

        • >>
          No we got Obama because McCain and Romney were not good enough
          <<

          If Trump was our candidate instead of either of those two, do you really think he’d do any better? Obama is still more popular than either Trump or Clinton. He’d easily win a third term.

          Jim

        • Latitude says:

          Well Obama’s not….and Trump wasn’t

          But the same crapslingers are still slinging the same crap….and that’s why we got Obama twice

          McCain wasn’t good enough…..Romney wasn’t good enough

          …so for 8 years we’ve had crap shoved down our throats

          There’s only one point…..do you want Hillary or not?

        • We deserve a Hillary government if we don’t at least try to stop it.

        • Or enable it. As you seem to feel is the proper response to Cruz, or whoever you preferred ,not being the able to close the deal.

        • philjourdan says:

          Not missing that. But the reason they do not “fear” Cruz, is that unlike Trump, he HAS to get money from the major donors, so they knew they could control him if he won (they preferred not to have him win in the first place).

  6. Latitude says:

    all Trump is saying is there’s no automatic citizenship thing

    We will work with them so in a sense they earn it.

    There has been absolutely no incentive for all these illegals to get citizenship…for all these years.
    They can come here, live here like citizens…housing, jobs, even benefits…and not have to bother with it.
    Even own businesses, etc…..and not citizens

    I know probably too many illegals…some will get their citizenship….and some don’t want it

    Only problem I see is the money….I don’t think it can be done because we have too many and it’s going to take all of our resources and money to process them all

  7. rg says:

    Off topic again – basically because I’m not net literate — but this is what the SJW’s world is going to look like .. lhttp://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/restaurant-opening-sparks-orlando-mall-shooting-scare/ar-BBw5vCO?li=BBnb7Kz .

  8. DirkH says:

    Leftists accuse Trump of being fascist – attack Trump supporters violently in the streets.
    Nothing says Antifascism like kicking people with a different opinion in the face.
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-26/real-threat-violence-left

  9. DirkH says:

    New DNC Chair Donna Brazile: What’s the deal with the Clinton Foundation? We ALL get payed before we meet someone!
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-29/new-dnc-chair-says-outrage-over-clinton-foundation-pay-play-attempt-criminalize-norm
    I don’t know whether that’s a smart defense but it sure is funny.

  10. DirkH says:

    Ey Canada, that was a close one, ey!
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollywood/2016/08/28/barbra-streisand-vows-move-australia-trump-wins/
    Barbra Streisand Says She Will Move to Australia If Trump Becomes President

  11. DirkH says:

    And stop calling Hillary Hitlery. Hitler was healthier when he ran for office.

    Also, a stupid millenial just found out he’d been working for a democrat propaganda outlet all these years. Writes about Hillary’s health, gets canned instantly. What took him so long?
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-29/huffingon-post-revoked-publishing-access-journalist-after-post-hillarys-healthits-or

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