People May Wish To Rethink Their Arguments For Voting Trump


Guys, and ladies, this is fascinating.  As I’m in the midst of semi-retirement from my blogging habit, I would not have believed that the comments of this poor blog would reflect a great question which faces this nation.  The pool it too small!  But, here it is!  Fantastic!

Most of the frequent commentators we’ve left on this blog are ardent Trump supporters.  I’ve very glad they’re here, each and every one of you.  I mean it.  I consider you guys all the time, daily. 

Recently, we’ve had a couple of people comment, which, were not so ardent.  I’d call them “fence riders”, although one has stated that he’d hold his breath and vote Trump.  He just voices that he really doesn’t like his options.  I happen to agree.  I don’t like my options. 

I also believe a thought conveyed on the last post isn’t without merit, that is to say, the quicker we get to the bottom, the quicker we can start moving up.  ….. that’s what going Galt is all about. 

It is not unreasonable to discern that Trump may not be good for this nation, nor this nation’s people.  OTOH, it would be entirely unreasonable to discern that Hillary would be good for this nation or this nation’s people. 

So, in this sense, the question would be akin to asking if you’d like a slow Chinese torture sort of death, or, would you rather have a bullet between your eyes?

Now, I know the Trump supporters would not agree with the above characterization, but, this is exactly what many fence riders believe and feel.  Reading the comments have left me wondering if this is how we believe we can convince people to vote for Trump.  I know some Trump supporters don’t see this, but, it’s here, it’s real. 

To win an election, you actually have to give a compelling reason why one should support one candidate over the other.   To say, ‘our candidate doesn’t suck as bad as the other’ will not convince people to get out of bed for your candidate.  Right, wrong or indifferent, it’s just not going to happen like that.  If you’re going to be an advocate for Trump, then, repeatedly, over and over again, tell people why Trump will be good for this nation and this nation’s people.  Explain why, explain how …… in a positive manner.  This is especially important to thoughtful, intelligent people …… that would be people who actually get out and vote.  Verbally bludgeoning them is probably not the best way. 

Now, don’t get me wrong, I don’t want anyone here to change, not one iota.  I love you guys!  But, if this blog is indicative, and, I believe it is, this is why Trump isn’t getting a lot of traction of late. 

Why does a secure border benefit the people of the US?  How many benefits can you see from there?  Do you root for American athletes during the Olympics?  Why?  Because you believe in American exceptionalism.  BTW, Trump is missing the boat on this.  He should be doing a tour on all of the shows talking up the US athletes …. competing and winning.  It’s right up his talking points alley, but, he’s missing the moment.  Don’t make it political, just talk up the exceptional people doing exceptional things as Americans.  Highlight the positives.  There’s a whole plethora of things in which we can accentuate the positives, rather than focusing on the negatives. That’s what wins, that’s what always wins. 

We all understand Hillary is a bullet between the eyes.  Now, convince the people how Trump isn’t a slow drip to hell.  <—– That wins!

PS ….. Telling a right-to-life person that Trump is less of a murderer than Hillary won’t do it.  It won’t resonate.  It doesn’t resonate.   ……. Well, it may resonate, but, not in the way one wishes it to resonate. 

PSS …… If this comes off as critical, it’s probably because it was an attempt at helpful criticism.   This is just my advice, take or leave it.  But, I’m trying to help. 

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105 Responses to People May Wish To Rethink Their Arguments For Voting Trump

  1. I know it’s preseason, but the Seahawks WON! (By one point–but a win is a win) I’m truly sorry about your Boys James. I was hoping they’d win too.


  2. Me says:

    Yep and Hillary would say “what difference, at this point, does it make!” As for the slow drip to hell, well if one believes that is what is going to happen then there is no changeing that persons mind, but you know the other option, people claiming they are on the fence but are closet leftist then Hellary is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and again there is no changing their mind.

    It is they are either pissed off now to the point of where they been lied to by this politician and like all politicians, they know how to tell you to go F#cK yourself and get people to say, thank you Sir and please may I have some more. Or give a newbe a chance to make him stand to his word. It’s time for these politicians to be signing contracts on their words they want the public to vote for them for. Break it and pay to play! 😆 pardon the punn from the latest e-mails! 😆

  3. Me says:

    As for the olympics, how many times have we seen the stories come out after the fact? As for Micheal Phelps, it’s a good thing pot isn’t a banned substance, and the same for that Canadian snow boarded that tested positive for pot!

    But hey good for Phelps and his milestone, too bad he got cheated out of one gold! And No it wasn’t a gaft at him being caught smoking pot.

  4. philjourdan says:

    It is not an issue of “less worse”. It is simply establishment vs. anti-establishment.

  5. gator69 says:

    I also believe a thought conveyed on the last post isn’t without merit, that is to say, the quicker we get to the bottom, the quicker we can start moving up.

    Yes, we see how well that worked with McCain and Romney. Atlas Shrugged is a great book, but it is also fiction.

  6. Latitude says:

    ….. that’s what going Galt is all about.

    Yep 100%….but it’s not practical

    Look at what Obama has been able to change in 8 years. They can fuss about Obamacare all they want….but it’s here to stay now.
    What Hillary will change and ram down our throats we will be stuck with for the rest of our lives.

    You could look at it as Trump will bide us some time and maybe someone better will come along.

    • Latitude says:

      ..and I will bet any amount of money the Hillary will put in permanent funding for Planned Parenthood with no strings attached

      Scream all you want to……you’ll never be able to change that

  7. DirkH says:

    The key reason to vote for Trump or in Germany the AfD is that the left-right duopoly of parties has become an obvious farce (Carol Quigley described it as such in Tragedy And Hope; he liked it that way; his book was suppressed even though he was a supporter of that status quo); left and right are FOR unlimited Muslim (or Mexican) immigration yet the people aren’t. So outsiders have to be voted in.

    Are these controlled oppositions made for us by the powers that be? Possible. As far as elections go, it’s the chance that we have.

    See – the moment we take democracy seriously all the parties that brought us freedom and democracy start calling us Nazis, ain’t THAT funny.

    • DirkH says:

      On a more global level, we see the swing from globalization to protectionism coinciding perfectly with the death of the Dollar (slowly vanishing as medium of international trade) and the emergence of the BRICS and the Eurasian trade zone; the new silk road and belt. We now have standard gauge track networks from Spain to all of China. The volume transported is relatively small compared to container ships – 0.1 % I think – yet it is rather fast – 2 weeks one way – and more importantly, it gives huge landlocked areas access to a trade route. Lincoln and Bismarck at about the same time used railroads to industrialize their countries (List, the economist behind Bismarck’s initiatives, copied the ideas of the Yankees.)

      The huge trade deficit of the USA is NECESSARY to allow the US Dollar to be the world currency – after all the entire world NEEDS Dollars for the trade transactions as long as Dollars are the medium used. So the USA *MUST* import goods and export Dollars and empty containers. Which it does. We know the consequence: De-Industrialization and laziness; the USA is on welfare granted by the rest of the world: Free consumption for pieces of paper.

      This never lasts forever; and the bartender- and waiter-recovery of the Obama presidency is just a painful distortion. Imagine. Your kids go what, 60k into debt for a basket weaving diploma just to become a waiter? That’s a distortion if I’ve ever seen one, enabled by said currency export business model.

      Can Trump turn this around? I don’t think so. All he can do is go along with the changes that will happen and manage them. Will he be able to manage it better than ur-corrupt Hillary? Well what a question. He managed 4 bankruptcies, if anyone is able to navigate the USA through this transformation it’s he.

    • Latitude says:

      the left-right duopoly of parties has become an obvious farce
      Exactly…they have us waving our little red and blue flags like it makes one bit of difference….they even gave us FOX news so we can scream and holler at the TV

    • Latitude says:

      The key reason to vote for Trump or in Germany the AfD is that the left-right duopoly of parties has become an obvious farce
      or to put that a different way….

      The key reason to vote Trump is because neither party picked him…
      …and both parties, the media, the big money people, everything political….is against him

      The wrong people are telling me to not vote for Trump

      • kim2ooo says:

        “The key reason to vote Trump is because neither party picked him…
        …and both parties, the media, the big money people, everything political….is against him

        The wrong people are telling me to not vote for Trump

        10+ 🙂

  8. I wonder if there was an article such as this written in every society that no longer exists.

  9. leftinflagstaff says:

    ‘Destroying ourselves faster so we can come back faster’ is taking a big risk with your way of life. And your neighbor’s.

  10. Latitude says:

    To win an election, you actually have to give a compelling reason why one should support one candidate over the other.
    To be honest…..not being able to hear, I can’t listen to either one…..
    I know Hillary said she would continue Obama’s policies…
    …I know Trump won’t

    I know one candidate won the nomination by their party rigging it…
    ..I know the other won because he won the popular vote…in spite of his party trying to rig it

    I know that every thing I despise is trying to make Hillary win….
    ….and make Trump lose

    I also know that this hand waving about he’s not conservative enough, he’s not anti abortion enough, he’s not this, he’s that, blah blah….is total BS
    Grow up, put your big boy pants on…..or suffer the consequences with 4-8 more years of Obama
    …and no, there will not be any great revolution to reset the clock

    We will all bitch and moan…..roll over on our backs, and pee on ourselves..just like we always do

    That’s enough for me to know

    I think Hillary/Obama’s policies are so vile…I would vote for a three legged dog first

    This is what we got with Obama….the great condescending enabler

    This guy looks to be early 20’s…so he was mid teens when Obama was elected…he grew up with Obama….this is the result….Hillary will continue it

    • I bet 90% of our exceptional athletes at Rio agree with him.

      • Latitude says:

        Whatever the percentage is…’s changing and changing rapidly
        ….we can give liberals credit for that

        • leftinflagstaff says:

          The argument for American exceptionalism has become a negative to many Americans. Or we’d have two Trump’s running.

        • Latitude says:

          Look….the same people that are against abortion…are the same people that were against gay marriage….that didn’t work out so great, did it? We’ve now legalized marijuana…simply because we can’t enforce the laws against it.

          The demographic in this country is way or the other….does not matter….it’s changing.

          This business of “I’m going to send a message by not voting”….and so what?
          …are you going to tell every conservative politician from now own that they are wasting their time by running?….because that what it will amount to….they will never win another election running on that platform…..we are fast becoming the minority
          …and liberals have demonized us…

          You want to talk about adding fuel to the fire?…..let some politician run on the anti-gay, anti-abortion, anti-globalization, pro build a wall, etc platform and they would be the laughing stock

          Trump does not hit all my buttons…..but I’m wise enough to know he hits enough of them
          …and wise enough to know if he hit them all…there would be no chance in hell

        • They’ll never vote again.

        • It’s interesting that Ann Coulter tweeted this today: USA Today – App maker: Trump will win election.

          The first thing I’m wondering is what is she smoking. The second thing I’m thinking is a Trump Presidency won’t be dull.


  11. suyts says:

    You guys have entirely missed the point of the post. No one is arguing against the points you’re making.

    leftinflagstaff says:
    August 14, 2016 at 8:11 am (Edit)

    I wonder if there was an article such as this written in every society that no longer exists.

    Latitude says:
    August 14, 2016 at 10:12 am (Edit)

    pretty much………

    Probably, because guys like me couldn’t convince guys like you to try a different approach in persuading people. ……. so, the people were not persuaded and they went into the abyss.

    • Latitude says:

      But I’m not running for office…can’t hear, don’t really care about the details of either one

      All I need to know is that Trumps is not Hillary…and if I don’t vote for Trump….Hillary can win

      Elections like this are really simple for me….there’s only two people…one I can’t stand
      …and the other one is not the one I can’t stand

      Hilary could say if she’s elected she will give me $1 million…or pay my mortgage
      …Trump could say he would eat my dog and nuke my neighborhood

      Doesn’t matter to me…I don’t believe any of them in the first place, they all lie.
      So trying to convince or persuade someone is a moot point

      If someone does not hate this administration we’ve had for the past 8 years enough to elect someone different and get them out of office…or get off their high horse and try to stop them from being elected again…..then there’s nothing you can say anyway.

    • I’m just not confident in much persuasion. I think the very need to be persuaded from a nationalist future to a globalist one, probably precludes you from being persuaded. The young globalist, who maybe just need to mature, probably won’t do so by this election. And forget about changing the mind of an old globalist.

    • suyts says:

      So, those undecided people aren’t really undecided? And, there’s nothing you or I can say to change there minds? No different perspective to give them? Then we may as well have the election tomorrow. But, that’s not the way it works in the real world. Millions get swayed in the last few months of an election. That’s why campaigns run ads, have assemblies, give speeches, etc…… etc….

      Essentially, these people are offering and willing to be convinced. It would be our job to convince them.

      • Me says:

        Well if they haven’t figured it out yet and can’t think for them selves, they deserve Clinton!

      • I still don’t know. Opinions on things such as a Wall to open borders are about as far apart as you can get. These are the type of opinions that define a person. Like persuading you to reject Christianity. Can that many really be on the fence about this stuff, knowing the consequeces of inaction, could lead to one or the other? Seems more likely as being apathetic to this country’s future than waiting to be convinced.

        • Me says:

          Rejecting Christianity and not believeing to me are not the same. I have no problems with Christians until they push it on me, but that is the same with any religion except one. Have a guess what that one is?

    • philjourdan says:

      No Suyts. But your post missed the main point. Most of the Trump supporters are not voting for him because he has great hair or has great ideas. They are voting for him because he is NOT establishment. So your “rethink” only works for those who have already said they are not voting for him. IN other words, you are trying to use the “preaching to the choir” speech on the heathens outside.

  12. copernicus34 says:

    My only worry is that Hillary has learned from Obama how best to circumvent the system. I once used to think that a POTUS couldn’t do the things that Obama has done. I’m solidly conservative; Trump is a liberal. That is why I’m not voting for him. I won’t vote for Hillary either. I think I’m exactly who the Great Suyts is talking about.

    • Me says:

      News Flash, everyone in politics would know that by now, bide your time till the second term to appease the people and if you don’t get your way veto and executive order! But with the Leftest they don’t care, till their free stuff runs out. When the repubs did anything even close they got tossed to the side, and then there are the RINO’s and now the Never Trumpers, So you are one of them or both.

  13. Latitude says:

    cop, Hillary has said over and over….she will continue Obama’s policies

    The republican party is never going to give you the candidate you want.
    ..and running a third party candidate is no different than not voting because of an ideology.

    Either way, the other party wins.

    If enough people think and act like you, we are going to be ruled by socialist, marxist, fascists for the rest of our lives.

    • copernicus34 says:

      Not necessarily talking about continuing his policies as much as circumventing the law. If a politician is able to get what they want passed, legally, then so be it. I’m not even convinced Trump would do things the lawful way; after all, he too will no doubt learn the way Obama has run roughshod over the constitution. As I stated, Trump is actually a liberal. If you vote for him then you will complete the process of being duped. All in the name of, IMHO, based on extreme anger of Obama (which I can understand at least where people are coming from).

      And, I’m not necessarily looking for the candidate I want more than a decent conservative.

      And to answer your last accusatory statement. Its not my fault Trump is now the marker for being a “Republican”. I’ve been a staunch conservative all my life. Not just adult life, through my teenage years on. I don’t feel the need to apologize and demand that “Republicans” pick a conservative, or at this point just right of center will do. As far as I’m concerned it’s you all who have gone off the reservation and actually “people like you” who will more responsible for what happens; at least these next 4-8 years.

      It’s not my intent to create a pissing contest on this site, as I have been around for awhile and agree with almost 100% of what you all say. Leave it up to a bunch of dumb Republicans to lose a “can’t lose” election to a criminal (Hillary).

      • Me says:

        Yeah, I doubt you are a conservative the way you talk!

      • Latitude says:

        Honest, was not meant to be accusatory…

        The democrats will legalize enough immigrants that they will never lose again. That’s their plan for the next four years. Hillary has even as much as said so, and they have every intention of doing it. We will never win another election.

        …and we will be ruled by socialist, marxist, fascists for the rest of our lives.

        • Me says:

          Exactly, and it’s happening here.

        • copernicus34 says:

          I too fear the things you fear. I worry that Trump is going to take Congress down with him. I would simply rather take the chance that another 4 years of a somewhat constrained liberal POTUS would be better than a post Trump (win) country not wanting to vote for Republicans for a generation (or more).

          I do admit I’m more a long-term thinker, but to me, there is no other way to look at this. Trump is going to lose, you have hooked up to the wrong horse. The more that you kick and scream the better chance Congress also changes hands; then we are well and truly good and fu**ed.

          Post Trump (loss) might seem apocalyptic to some, but I see that as the best chance for the Republican party to come together and get stronger.

          To me, the fascinating bit is what kind of post-mortem will their be for the Republicans after Nov 9. They don’t look like they have any clue why they think they are conservative. The Never-Trumpers and RINO’s themselves included. In my mind the entire party apparatus has lost its mind. To include those blog commenters I view as world view close to mine.

        • philjourdan says:

          Cop, I do not agree with Trump on much. As everyone here knows, I am voting for him because he is NOT establishment.

          But I think the congress argument is the weakest. Actually, I see the Republicans AND democrats uniting against him. IN other words, 4 years of stasis.

        • >>
          . . . as the best chance for the Republican party to come together and get stronger.

          Or it will destroy the party entirely. I’m not sure the Republican party will survive this election. It’ll be sort of like the Whigs after the Kansas-Nebraska Act.


        • Latitude says:

          I just don’t understand how standing on your principals….
          …is electing the total anti-christ to them

          When Hillary is elected she’s said she will legalize as many illegals as she can…
          …the second she does that, half of central American is going to storm our border
          Democrats will not secure the border…..

          Hillary will give Planned Parenthood even more money and power.

          ..and even more confusing
          How would we elect a “somewhat constrained” liberal POTUS…
          ..and that same process would not “somewhat constrain” Trump??

          You’ve seen how the democrats work, they rig nominations, the rig elections…the have every intention of rigging this so republicans never win again

        • gator69 says:

          I just don’t understand how standing on your principals….

          I would think that would likely result in assault charges. Not even an assistant principal would deserve such blatant disrespect.

        • philjourdan says:

          YOu have not had some of the vice principals that I HAVE had! 😉

      • Me says:

        Yeah and as for a bunch of dumb repubs to lose a can’t lose situation then look no further than the RINOs and the Never Trumpers doing all they can to defeate themselves. But that isn’t the issue here is it? They have their connections and want to keep the status quo. Apparently the last guy had all the support and what did he do????

        • philjourdan says:

          You miss the entire picture. The Republicans lost when they did not stack the deck as the democrats did (No Bernie, yes Trump). That is because they are democrat lites. Not full fledged cheats, liars and thieves.

          Now it is just Establishment versus Anti-establishment. And the home team always has the advantage. Especially when the score keepers (the media) are establishment,.

      • Latitude says:

        As I stated, Trump is actually a liberal. If you vote for him then you will complete the process of being duped. All in the name of, IMHO, based on extreme anger of Obama (which I can understand at least where people are coming from).
        And if you don’t vote for Trump you complete the same process…you got duped into electing Hillary…continuing the democrat/liberal agenda for sure

        They don’t care….whatever works

  14. Latitude says:

    Every democrat, probably half the republicans, every newspaper and media, The Economist, Planned Parenthood, BLM, France!, China!, Ryan, McCain, and squirrely Lindsey, Pelosi, Reid, and Obama, MSNBC, Occupy, Soros, Koch, and Buffet….ok, list it too long

    I’ve never in my entire life seen a republican candidate with so many endorsements…….

    • DirkH says:

      Plus, German foreign minister Steinmeier, and Hollande of France! (The rest of the government govt are holding back. They got enough probs already. So they delegated the Trump bashing to Steinmeier.)

    • Me says:

      The problem is we are the game and they are the wolves, and every one of them now have shown their fangs. I don’t know if Trump is any better but from what we have seen he can’t be any worse. So they are afraid and maybe they need to be for a change.

    • You left out my fave: the former President of the nation currently doing the most damage. And we thought we won that war.

      • Me says:

        Ya did, but then the bleeding hearts kept you in there so American Soldiers can die, instead of sending a message. But then again contracts and cronys need their milk too so that is the end result.

      • Me says:

        It’s like this, the US and you all don’t want to occupy any nation like the former Soviet Union. But then you have these shit disturbers creating chaos everywhere. Why, because apparently itis written in their religious book. You don’t fight that kind of war with them and coddle them after the fact. you sent them a message, one they can understand, otherwise we see the crap we see now.

        • Well yes, the religious invasion is the latest addition to the economic invasion.

        • Me says:

          I like to see my country back as you like to see yours in it’s glory. But like I have said here and seen in my country, I knew we would have another Trudeau in power here. I don’t know about that down there, that is your domain. But you should know by now.

        • philjourdan says:

          California re-elected Moonbeam before you re-elected your dynasty.

        • Me says:

          Trump needs to start pressing this climate change issue, with the carbon taxes and how that is going to cost everyone more as the bottom line. Liberals don’t want to go near that during an election, as we saw what happened with Stéphane Dion. He got clobbered because of his green AGW policy. Our last election for some reason Harper took his foot off them and let them get away with not bringing up this issue. But now, just like everything the liberals do here, the thing that was not their issue is now their biggest issue suddenly. A lie by omission!

        • Me says:

          And then after seeing you all talking about Obama care, it was a negative, suddenly the dems and the LSM was calling it the afordable care act, ya know to distance Zero from it, and even Zero himself was calling it the ACA and not refering it as OC! That’s how they work. As the same as it was a youtube vid and they all got a good nights sleep so they can fund raise nice and chipper the next day after benghazi! But were all up and very aware when they watched the raid for Osama!

        • Me says:

          Or did alot of you forget all that crap and now it is Trump says mean things or they think he said mean things?

        • Me says:

          And if ya want to know why I called it crap, is because you are treating it like it is, like the Dems say it is.

  15. Latitude says:

    So you enter and stay in a country illegally…
    ..and somehow you have a say so in their politics

  16. Latitude says:

    ..and you invite all your friends and relatives to join you

    Illegal immigration surges past 2015 total with two months still to go in fiscal year

    The surge has been powered chiefly by a new increase in the number of children and families from Central America attempting to sneak into the U.S., pushed by violence at home and lured by the hope of amnesty from the Obama administration

  17. Latitude says:

    Conservatives are their own worst enemy….

    Liberals will show up in mass to vote for someone…just because they are not a republican

  18. cdquarles says:

    Since the Progessives learned 120 years ago that they couldn’t win openly as a ‘3rd’ party, they changed their tactics but not their strategy. Their strategy was destroy the US from within, via corruption. The first salvos were the “War” on Drugs (Harrison Narcotic Acts then Alcohol Prohibition), which criminalized commerce, and the Income Tax and Popular Election of the Senate Amendments plus the Federal Reserve Act. Note that these were Marxist in concept and are the Cloward-Piven strategy. In the years since, we have had two or three respites from the ‘Long March’, which were, to me, Harding/Coolidge, John Kennedy, and Ronald Reagan. Respites only, for they had to fight both halves of the Progressive Establishment and didn’t win the war.

    Human nature is what it is. Empires rise and fall. Civilizations rise and fall. Human nature allows the rise and the fall. We need God. [God *IS* Existence as such, no qualifiers. Everything else has qualifiers/modifiers and presumes the antecedent, by logical necessity, existence.]

    Life often resembles Fiction, for Fiction is a story-telling method that abstracts logical conditions that may be retold using imagined containers. Atlas Shrugged is fiction, yet we are living it because the premises abstracted were actual.

    Trump bothers me philosophically, yet the ‘go slow’ allows for recovery without so much destruction that the overt Evil that is Progressivism will cause. Then again, the Word says that the Beast will rule and there will be much wailing, gnashing of teeth, and death. What fell in Atlas Shrugged was the society without destruction of the ability to recover, so Galt and company had things to work with still at hand. These do feel like the Last Days. When the Rapture happens, I don’t want to be Left Behind.

    • DirkH says:

      ” The first salvos were the “War” on Drugs (Harrison Narcotic Acts then Alcohol Prohibition), ”

      Wasn’t the prohibition a Rockefeller sponsored move to outlaw alcohol as alternative car fuel?

      • cdquarles says:

        I doubt it. Methanol and ethanol have been and certainly can be fuels for internal combustion engines. The chemistry of making alcohol fuels remains what it is. Rockefeller didn’t need to do anything but keep pumping oil and making refineries more efficient. Standard Oil, today, has no issue running refineries that make any liquid fuel. Alcohol prohibition did not affect industrial production, just sales, use, possession and manufacture by the general public for direct consumption, if I am remembering correctly.

        My recollection of Alcohol Prohibition is that certain ‘community organizers’, some of whom were the original ‘feminists’, didn’t like the effects of intoxication and, as has been the case so often, of blaming an inanimate object for the evils done by humans. Banning drugs shares logic with banning guns, or more generally, banning weapons. You can’t get a more ‘controlled’ environment for humans than prisons, yet prisons can’t keep out drugs or weapons.

    • leftinflagstaff says:

      It’s probably foolish to think we’ll ever fully recover, from a slow or fast collapse. The same problems that helped bring it about, aren’t going away. Ours, and the world’s, situations are drastically different from when we ‘rose.’ We’ve become much too diverse. We’ll never recreate the unity of thought and purpose of original America. Oceans no longer protect us. We won’t come out of two world wars as virtually the only nation mostly unscathed.

      I’ll still go with trying to stop it now.

      • DirkH says:

        It is amazingly simple to become successful again: Just drop the regulations. Would be simple for Europe as well. Not a problem at all.

        So you gotta ask: Who benefits from the regulations? Well – big zombie corporations and banks.

        And ironically the ones screaming the loudest for more regulations are the socialists with their principally low income / welfare clientele (see e g Portugal, Spain – structurally leftist and unemployed).

        How about translating Atlas Shrugged and airdropping a few million copies over those shitholes.

        • leftinflagstaff says:

          Well, there’s some of that ‘ too diverse in thought.’

          But I don’t think it’s that simple anyway. Not for real recovery. A watered-down version maybe.

        • Latitude says:

          Who benefits from the regulations?…the same people telling to not vote for Trump

        • DirkH says:

          “But I don’t think it’s that simple anyway. Not for real recovery.”

          Example: Minimum wage prohibits unqualified people from working.
          Zoning laws prevent affordable housing from being built, preserving wealth of current homeowners.

          There is *no* reason why 20% of the American workforce dropped out of the labor statistics if not for regulations. Doing a low productivity labor is better than doing no labor at all. Welfare is another regulation that needs to go to motivate people to actually do those jobs though.

          In other words, a Hong Kong – or early BRD – style economy.

        • leftinflagstaff says:

          It’s because of the many ‘Hong Kongs’ that we’ll never see the situation we rose in. American won the race to the modern economy. We became the primary maker of things. We rode that, and increased it as the much the world’s manufacturing was carpet bombed.

          Unlikely to work that way for us next time. The world has caught up.

        • leftinflagstaff says:

          *as much of the worlds

        • DirkH says:

          Welfare buys votes – which is what politicians want. BUT welfare together with minimum wage laws at the same time creates US unemployment. Which is *NOT* desired by politicians but an inevitable consequence.

          And, minimum wage laws were originally designed and understood to keep unqualified people out of the workforce! The unions fought for it to keep non Union members out! The blacks and poor European immigrants had to be kept out ! Wage competition had to be outlawed! Nothing to do with being nice!

          So if any US politician intended to reduce unemployment he would scrap them now. Maybe the thinking of the Dems is: even with minimum wage laws that keep unqualified blacks out of the workforce they still vote D so we’ll keep it this way.

          Anyway. Nonworking people are always a drag on the economy, obviously.

        • suyts says:

          Sorry about the moderation thing, Dirk. I don’t know why it sent you there.

        • gator69 says:

          Banks do not benefit from regulation. Dodd-Frank is strangling the financial sector, and starving banks of profits. The bank I work for paid tens of millions of dollars in penalties for something they did not even do, because regulations dictated that they should be punished for nothing.

          Our branches are struggling to make a profit, so much so that they can no longer afford to have coffee makers or pens with logos. Overtime is a fireable offense, and fees can no longer be credited back to customers unless it is a bank error.

          Anyone who thinks banks benefit from regulations has obviously not worked at a bank in a very long time, if ever.

        • DirkH says:

          gator69 says:
          August 17, 2016 at 8:18 am
          “Banks do not benefit from regulation. ”

          They do. I am not talking about those bank regulations. Imagine there were an unregulated housing market. Houses would be dirt cheap. No money to make from mortgages for the banks.

          And houses should be dirt cheap given advances in construction techniques. It’s totalitarian hidden orgs like ICLEI and crony interests that stop the construction of new units where it’s needed. Look at San Francisco.

        • gator69 says:

          Dirk, stick to what you know. Banks do not benefit from regulation, as I ponted out in my post. I actually work for a major bank, and know of what I speak.

        • cdquarles says:

          Who benefits from big regulations? Government, BIG Government. Taxes are regulations and regulations are taxes. Banks don’t really benefit much and neither do big commercial corporations, of which the biggest corporation of them all is BIG Government.

      • Latitude says:

        I’ll still go with trying to stop it now….

        I think it’s out of our hands.
        They are going to rig this election, just like they’ve been rigging them already. All the places that reported more votes, than they had registered voters.

        They are already rigging the polls…you can’t rig the election so Hillary wins…if she was way behind in the polls.
        And democrats rigged the nomination so Hillary won.

        Then we’re going to see all the pompous republicans, McCain, Ryan, Romney, Graham, etc, puffing their chests out……wagging their fingers at us and saying we told you so

        Hillary is going to be our next president…and we have no choice about it

        • Latitude says:

          Our problem is we see these things in Russia, Turkey, etc all over the world…
          …and we’re so stupid we don’t think it can happen here

        • leftinflagstaff says:

          And, Rome isn’t coming back. Nor the British empire. The world moves on.

  19. Ron Clutz says:

    OT but a timely issue is the GISS graph used by Brian Cox to put down Malcom Roberts. I posted a response here:

    I included your graph from 2013 showing GISS annual temps in absolute F degrees. It would be a public service if you updated that graph and published it.

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