How Did They Know?


By now, we’ve all seen the historic NOAA graphic about how even 1979 had a greatly diminished ice extent compared to the 1950s and seemingly back in perpetuity before then…….


And, we’ve all seen the hysteria created by the ever shrinking polar cap……….


Clearly, the 1979-2000 median minimum, is less than what 1979 would have been.  And, clearly, the 1979 minimum would have been much less than what the prior to then starting about about 1950.  This should mean that the islands circled should have been entirely engulfed by ice…… for thousands of years, if we are to believe the lunatics. 

So, how was this map possible?


For a great zoom, go here…..

The Arctic Regions From the Admiralty Chart of 1875

Illustrated Newspapers (publisher)   The Arctic Regions From the Admiralty Chart of 1875   engraving
Courtesy of the Osher Map Library and Smith Center for Cartographic Education at the University of Southern Maine, OML-1875-29  Image: 15.006

They probably used satellite imagery or sonar detection or some such……  Maybe they dug through all of the ice to find the land…… maybe they just got lucky and guessed that these were islands…. though we don’t see them guessing with Greenland.  There are liars, there are damned liars, and then there is NOAA.  

Perhaps someone can carry the ball a little further than I have.  But, they’d better hurry, there’s a lot of information getting shoved down the memory hole. 

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48 Responses to How Did They Know?

  1. Latitude says:

    wait wait wait….you just reminded me of something
    There’s some island up there….that was recently discovered to be two islands….they were covered in ice/snow and connected, so they thought it was only one island… they changed their name to two islands……only there’s some old chart that shows them as two islands and two names already

    Does that ring a bell???….I can’t remember where I read it now

  2. Latitude says:

    BTW, this is excellent detective work!

    • suyts says:

      Thanks, I’ve become completely frustrated in finding the data behind the IPCC and CIA works in the regular cli-sci sites. Which is highly unusual. Usually, I can birddog obscure data with a little work. But, there have been times when I know information has been erased by the weasels, and I have to find other avenues. In this case, I think cartography is our best shot at getting to the truth. I didn’t find exactly what I was looking for, but this is a bit of a gem. Especially the Prince Patrick island. 🙂

      There’s no way they delineate the island, with the technology they had then unless it was ice free, or very nearly ice free for a time.

  3. Anything is possible says:

    Is this what you’re thinking of, Lat?

  4. Mike Davis says:

    The viking mapped the shore line and islands when they settled there and some of those maps were produced later. I was reading about the settlement of Vinland and that mentioned the mapping, I think, or it was another tale. The person that would know is Tony Brown, but I have not seen him on any of the sites recently. Of course i have not been visiting much other that here and RS

    • suyts says:

      I saw some much older maps, but the distortion of the mapping made them useless. That’s the problem with the Arctic. Mapping, and even navigating, when that far north presents a lot of problems…… even today.

      The north pole, magnetic north, and the northern star, when you’re up that far, they don’t always take you home.

  5. Latitude says:

    James, what is that dotted circle straight down from the “L” in pole, on the old map…
    …that’s the way charts show shoals, reefs, etc

  6. Latitude says:

    I hunted down as many charts as I could…..the only way they could map Liverpool Land like that…is if it were clean
    Liverpool Land has a glacier feeding into it….that would have had to have been melted

    • suyts says:

      I’m wondering about geological activity changing shape of some of these things.

      • Latitude says:

        Don’t think so….for two reasons
        The earthquake maps show activity way south of there….and even a major earthquake would not move it enough that a glacier couldn’t keep up….

        Here’s the melt map..and it shows almost all of the melt right there

  7. suyts says:

    Kevin thinks what?

    There’s a couple of other things to notice about this map. Notice the parts of Greenland they did map, and the parts they didn’t. Then, look how the cartographer delineates what he “thinks” vs what he “knows”. Look at Prince Patrick island. It’s fully delineated with a dark line encircling the island.

    This suggests to me, that the arctic ice was, 1) less than what it was in 2007, and 2) the typical ice formation has shifted. Today’s ice extends much further west than what it did, for at least a season or two…… long enough for the cartographer to make such an affirmative statement about Prince Patrick.

    • Latitude says:

      hey Goofy….there’s something else to notice too

      The NorthWest Passage is charted out………LOL

      Now, if no one knew where the NWP was, how did they chart it out exactly?

      • suyts says:

        lol, yeh….. I think they knew it was possible by the shifting ice….. but knowing they could make it through the ice would be a different thing.

        • Latitude says:

          Nope…look at a recent chart of the NWP
          That has to be a trip that someone actually took.
          The real NWP cuts in behind Banks Island. They show a hook turn around the outside of Banks. That’s the way someone would go, if the didn’t know the cut south of Banks was deep enough, or if it was frozen over…..
          Someone had to have gone through the entire NWP and mapped their course…in order to have produced that map….with that route plotted out

        • Latitude says:

          ah ha!
          Did you read all of that? Lots of references to open water, he missed it because he decided to over winter in the bay………..

        • suyts says:

          Yes, it’s very illuminating.

        • Latitude says:

          can you get Steve’s blog this morning??
          …I’m getting ‘forbidden’ and a 405

  8. suyts says:

    I’m getting an error “403”, something about port 80…..maybe their mucking with the security settings on the server.

  9. Lars P. says:

    There is this work from Mahoney which also shows different result for the russian sea ice in the first part of the 20th century contradicting the NOAA graphic:

    Click to access Mahoney_2008_JGR_20thC_RSI.pdf

  10. Latitude says:

    I’ve been reading……did a search for whaling history arctic…..There’s no way the NWP was not open….American whalers went up and around Alaska to the Beaufort, following the whales….where they met whalers from Europe in the Beaufort…that had followed the whales from the other end…..if both ends were open….
    Then later…during the civil war…..some confederate ship went up there and captured 22 New England whaling ships….burned 20 of them…and took the prisoners to San Francisco to put them in jail……
    Unless that confederate ship sailed around South America….it went through the NWP

    • Anything is possible says:

      Been doing a bit of reading myself, including this :

      Here’s the “money” quote :

      “British explorers searched most actively for the Northwest Passage for the British Crown had-offered a prize of 20,000 pounds sterling to the discoverer. In 1826, Sir John Franklin drew up an ambitious plan to send a fleet of ships north of Alaska and Canada through unexplored waters. One group would search from the east; the other from the west. Sir John himself led the eastern approach from the Atlantic-Ocean. Captain Frederick W. Beechey of the British Royal Navy sailed H. M. S. Blossom on the westward leg through the Bering Sea. He hoped to join Franklin somewhere on the arctic coast.

      The arctic ice pack stopped Beechey near Icy Cape. His crew worked a boat from the Blossom through leads in the ice pack to Point Barrow. Ice forced Franklin to turn back to the Atlantic Ocean several hundred miles to the east of the waiting Blossom . Franklin had reached and named Prudhoe Bay.”


      In other words, Franklin made it all the way from the Atlantic Ocean to Prudhoe Bay and back again (in a single year?), and it was only ice along the Alaskan coast between Prudhoe Bay and Barrow which prevented him from meeting up with Beechey.

      That should make Kevin O’Neill’s head explode (:-

      I’ll post this on Steve’s site, I’m sure he will enjoy…….

    • suyts says:

      Lat, You got names and dates we can follow up on?

  11. Anything is possible says:

    Whoops. Upon further review, Franklin “cheated”. Carried his boats overland from Hudson Bay to the McKenzie delta. LOL!

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