Brilliant Observations By The POTUS!!!

image

Barry in his intellectual, contemplative pose.

These astounding observations merit not only mentioning, but, highlighting!  The first one was not only a brilliant observation, but, a magnanimous gesture as well!

“Israel has every right to expect that it does not have missiles fired into its territory,” President Barack Obama said at a news conference in Bangkok at the start of a three-nation visit to Asia.

I’m sure the Israelis were wondering if they had the right to defend themselves or not.  Thanks for clearing that up for them, Barry.  One never knows about the appropriate response to terrorists lobbing rockets into one’s country.

But, this second observation demonstrates Barry’s unique ability for insight many simply don’t have.  

“If that can be accomplished without a ramping up of military activity in Gaza, that’s preferable,” Obama said. “It’s not just preferable for the people of Gaza. It’s also preferable for Israelis, because if Israeli troops are in Gaza, they’re much more at risk of incurring fatalities or being wounded.”

So, if I’m following this complex insight Barry just shared with us properly, and I think I am, what he seems to be saying is that if one sends combat troops into an area against heavily armed combatants, then the troops could be killed or injured!!!

Some one should make sure the Israelis understand this stuff!! 

 

Read more: here.

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100 Responses to Brilliant Observations By The POTUS!!!

  1. Me says:

    Probably a drone thinggy err something, err why troops didn’t go into Lybia’s Benghazi maybe……
    Apparently he didn’t need Congress approval to do his thing, the UN was enough then but not fer his embassy pers he put there. ?????????????

  2. Bruce says:

    At least he isn’t backing Hamas, which is a relief.

    Unfortunately what is ‘good’ for Gazans is not necessarily good for Hamas, who is between a rock and a hard place of their own making. Because they chose the wrong side to back in Syria (because Iran offered them money and missiles) now the Sunni’s won’t give Hamas money. They can’t take money from Iran anymore without being seen as traitors to the Muslim Brotherhood, so are at risk of going bankrupt. If they can no longer pay salaries Hamas is cactus, since the Gazans will support Fatah instead (or anyone that will let them put food on the table).

    So Hamas has to stir up a fight with Israel that they can resist heroically, live on TV. Then and only then will the Sunnis give them money.

  3. leftinbrooklyn says:

    The day Israel elects a leader as cowardly as Barack Obama, the Middle East map will need redrawing, minus one country. Amazing that American Israelis support him here.

  4. miked1947 says:

    O’Bambi failed to observe that the fastest way to stop the bloodshed is for Hamas, a known terrorist organization, to cease aggressive activity. I am certain if Hamas stopped their activity those in Israel would have no reason to continue as that is the goal of all the activity by the people of Israel.
    If it takes wiping the entire population of Gaza off the face of the Earth to stop the aggression, then peace will have been achieved, for a short time.

    • gator69 says:

      Hey Mike! In order to stop Hamas, you must first stop Iran, as Hamas is simply a proxy for them. Hamas allows Iran to lay back behind their borders and continuously attack Israel without risking all out war. Iran just stirs the pot, and looks for an opportunity while they build their bomb.

      • miked1947 says:

        Iran is only the most obvious country involved in promoting the Hamas, and similar groups.
        Certain groups withing the Islam religion are determined to destroy Israel first and the rest of the “Infidels” around the world later. That way they can enjoy the peace they protest is the basis for their religion.
        The problem with that is, each cult withing Islam will need to destroy any other Islam cult because they hate each other also. The Sunni think every other form of Islam is wrong. The Shiite feel the same.

        • gator69 says:

          Yes, clearly Islam is the problem, and until recently Iran was the most vocal and dangerous of their government sponsors.

          “The Sunni think every other form of Islam is wrong. The Shiite feel the same.”

          That makes me nearly Sunni, and nearly Shiite. ;)

        • miked1947 says:

          O YEAH!

  5. miked1947 says:

    You are all going to like this one!
    http://wmbriggs.com/blog/?p=6593

    • Bruce says:

      The problem with this is large organisations naturally attract the tribal left who then perpetuate control of the organisation by tribally recruiting the same type of people. Their Achilles heel is their liking for unions and bureaucracy, so the organisation fills up with unsackable unionised dead wood until it collapses insolvently.

      The problem is this afflicts universities (ie Dr Briggs’ article), governments, regulatory services and worst of all the health system. We all suffer when the arteries of the health system fill up with these cholesteric freeloaders.

      I don’t know what can be done with this since the drive of progressive Fabian politics is always to colonise bureaucracies. Bureaucracies also attract the mediocre who crave safety and security. Who then get into public sector unions to safeguard that security. In industry it is mostly fixed by the regular clean outs which occur when a recession or a takeover comes around. But government controlled or regulated bureaucracies never get this purging. So it just builds and builds until it all clags up.

      Here in Oz the uni system is completely controlled by the progressive left, wall to red bleeding-heart wall. I got out 30 years ago and it was noticeable then. Now it is disgustingly oppressive. CSIRO has also been colonised for similar reasons. You are free to have an inquiring mind so long as you are inquiring into Marx, Lenin, Keynes and The Little Red Book.

      The only thing going for the West right now is that non western countries have their own equivalently horrible problems.

  6. kim2ooo says:

    Reblogged this on Climate Ponderings and commented:
    Add your thoughts here… (optional)

  7. kelly liddle says:

    What do you want the POTUS to say? This in a way is a non post because there is nothing in it but a little bit of diplomatic language. If he was my president I would want him to act in such a manner and not try to stir things up.

    Some of the comments in the previous post about Anti Semitic news I strongly dissagree with. First of all what makes it anti- semetic to make an opinion on the Israeli government? Many Jewish and Muslim people do not agree with their position (Arabs are semites also in the original meaning). Phil I think said he had no sympathy for any Palestinian. How can you have no sympathy, are you suggesting they are not human and how you can say some child born in an occupied territory is guilty, is beyond me. The Gaza strip may not be occupied by people now but the state of Israel controls things such as electricity, water, trade, personal movement and the military that protects the land and also does not recognise Palestine as a state and therefore it must be a part of Israel.

    To stop all possible rocket attacks you must make the Gaza strip officially a prison as the basic requirements for a rocket are fuel and a metal tube or water pipes, sugar and fertilizer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qassam_rocket Is this the direction that people think Israel should take? Your Mexican gangs kill far more people in the US than those rockets kill and why don’t you invade Mexico if it is such a good idea? Ok the scale is too big then what about doing that to the city of Compton I am sure they kill people outside their city so why not put a fence around them and drop bombs on them every now and again.

    Here is an interesting blog from a US citizen (or ex citizen) I do not have any good feelings towards this fellow (as far as his fundamentalist religious views are concerned) http://settlersofsamaria.org/2012/01/02/how-can-a-settler-support-ron-paul/#comments he has gone to Israel to claim land that some one apparently said was his more than 2000 years ago and that those people who were born there do not and can not own his land “provided that they do not claim that my land is actually theirs.” This Jewish person was not persecuted as a US citzen so why does he have to go and claim land that someone else claims and more rightfully so in my opinion.

    • kelly liddle says:

      Sorry Phil it was Mike.

    • suyts says:

      “What do you want the POTUS to say?”
      How about something a little less condescending? Soldiers might die or get hurt if they go into combat?

      Let’s try something other than the equivalent of a parent admonishing their child not to run with scissors. It’s simplistic and insulting. If he doesn’t have anything of more substance to say, he shouldn’t say anything.

      • kelly liddle says:

        Suyts
        That is a fair point. Words to the effect that the US hopes that both sides will exercise constraint to not make the problems worse might be better wording and even handed.

        • suyts says:

          Yes. I’m not sure if it is the arrogance of this man that causes him to utter these inanities or his simplistic thinking. Either way, it irritated me to no end, so I wrote about it. :)

    • leftinbrooklyn says:

      ‘How can you have no sympathy, are you suggesting they are not human and how you can say some child born in an occupied territory is guilty, is beyond me.’

      If they loved their children more than they hate Israel, they would drive these terrorist from their territory. Or kill or imprison them themselves. Not elect them into power.

      • kelly liddle says:

        Leftie
        I did allude to the point that the US is more violent than Israel/Palestine at the moment. Check the figures if you want there have been more wrongfull deaths per capita in the US than that country or those countries depending on your perspective in the last decade. So if you feel so strongly that people should be protected what do you want to do about your situation? Vigilantyism doesn’t work and it is not everyone that supports violence. Also other factors must be considered like with your own country if you are a fiscal conservative then who can you vote for? You actually do not have a clear choice to make.

        “57% support a non violent popular resistance and only 37% support an armed intifada.”

        So a reasonable majority do not support violence

        “43% support and 55% oppose recognition of Israel as the state of the Jewish people after reaching a peace agreement that resolves all issues of the conflict.”

        Yes a small majority do not want to recognise Israel. So do you want to just not care about the 43%? I think that if a peace agreement was reached there would be many more people willing to accept Israel.

        Things should never be considered black and white. I suspect atitudes within the Israeli community to be just as divided.

        http://www.pcpsr.org/survey/polls/2012/p44e.pdf

        • leftinbrooklyn says:

          Hi Kelly-
          ‘ I think that if a peace agreement was reached there would be many more people willing to accept Israel.’

          Cart before the horse. The actions in that sentence must be reversed, or this cycle will continue, forever.

          Acceptance of Israel would not mean a vote for those whose stated agenda is intolerance of Israel. It would not mean acceptance of your territory as a launch site against Israel.

          I fail to see comparison with US violence. We generally attempt to stop it, not put the violent into positions of power. If some American psycho group began launching missiles into Mexico, how long do you think it would take them to be arrested or killed? By fellow Americans.

        • kelly liddle says:

          Then who would you vote for? Both political parties in Gaza would be sympathetic to the occasional missile I expect. Like I said if you want to cut spending and are serious who will you vote for in the US?

          I am an optimist and believe that the people of Israel/Palestine will live together in peace and to me they are not doing all that bad actually (both the left and right blow everything out of perspective). I am not particularly concerned by who kills me or a relative and what were their motives. That is how the US situation relates to the situation in Israel to me, cold hard numbers.

          In relation to Davids comment I would say there is no such thing as black culture so to speak. The US drug culture and way of dealing with it probably has a lot to do with the homicide rates.

          “If the milatary balance was reversed, then genocide would be the result.”

          Well according to some Iran represents that and they haven’t killed all their Jews so no reason to think they suddenly would.

        • leftinbrooklyn says:

          ‘Then who would you vote for? Both political parties in Gaza would be sympathetic to the occasional missile I expect.’

          Well, again, political parties being representatives of the people, it shows they have a long way to go to prove acceptance of Israel, and to expect that they deserve recognized nation status.

          And yes, both our Parties spend too much, meaning our cycle of debt will never end, just as their cycle of violence never will. Unless they (and us with, the debt example) gain the will to truly force real solutions, not just a vote for the lesser of two evils.

        • gator69 says:

          “Facts” from the “Palestinian Center for POLICY and SURVEY”? Founded by Dr. Khalil Shikaki?

          “In 1991, he became a professor at the University of South Florida in Tampa. In 1992, after An-Najjah University was reopened, Khalil applied to return to the West Bank. But Israeli authorities denied him permission on the basis of intelligence information that he had maintained a covert relationship with his brother Fathi, the head of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ). Khalil denied that he had maintained such a relationship–and got the State Department to pressure Israel into giving Khalil permission to return to the West Bank. In the face of such U.S. pressure–coupled with strong editorial support by New York Times columnist Anthony Lewis — Israel relented and granted him entry into Israel. In 1993, Khalil formed the Center for Palestine Research and Studies in Nablus. To this day, Khalil has steadfastly denied any connection to the Islamic Jihad, that he maintained a covert relationship to his brother, or had any knowledge of the subsequent disclosure that the academic center in Tampa where he worked served as the clandestine Islamic Jihad terrorist apparatus. In fact, evidence released by the FBI and INS in addition to other documentary evidence introduced at the trial of Sami al-Arian shows that Khalil was a key intermediary in the organization of the American arm of the PIJ. The evidence further contradicts the claims made by Shikaki that he did not know of the real backgrounds of Al Arian or Ramadan Abdullah Shallah or of the front groups for PIJ.”

          http://www.investigativeproject.org/khalil_shikaki.html

          Kellie, you need to stop with the propaganda. The Islamists are masters of disinformation. I can find polls that are more credible, that show nearly the opposite…

          “Two recent polls find a vast majority of Arabs supporting terror attacks and a growing Israeli majority opposed to further withdrawals. A recent Palestinian Authority poll shows that 84 percent of PA Arabs approve of the massacre at Merkaz HaRav Yeshiva in Jerusalem, where eight students were murder and ten wounded.”

          http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/125639

          Kellie, I once had the same opinion of the Palestinians as you, until I stopped reading leftist and Islamic propaganda.

        • kelly liddle says:

          “And yes, both our Parties spend too much, meaning our cycle of debt will never end, just as their cycle of violence never will. Unless they (and us with, the debt example) gain the will to truly force real solutions, not just a vote for the lesser of two evils.”

          I really like that comment. Democracy is not perfect but it is the best we have. Maybe it will just take time and things will correct.

        • kelly liddle says:

          Gator
          It doesn’t mean I believe everything I read. If you noticed I dissagree with both sides on certain points. Both exagerate everything for political gains. Would you concede that it would be ok to maybe listen to Jewish Israeli’s? They have a diverse view also.

        • gator69 says:

          “They have a diverse view also.”

          I am only interested in truth, not “views”. Views are for paintings, photos and viewing pleasure.

          Why would you use the propaganda of a known terrorist and terrorism supporter?

        • kelly liddle says:

          Gator
          I don’t know him to be a terrorist. Do you and if you do where has he be convicted of such? If he has not been convicted then who is the judge of whether or not he is a terrorist. If you say you want to use facts then you have to present them.

          Listen to this fellow then he seems to deal in facts. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCKWDarNdGw&feature=related

          The people on both sides of the fence who want peace will eventually prevail.

        • gator69 says:

          Once again Kelly does not read the material presented to him.

        • gator69 says:

          Your “fact dealer” calls the IDF terrorists.

          “Miko Peled, who spoke at the IAW event, is an anti-Israeli hatemonger who ripped history asunder and provided his own version with Israel the worst villain on the face of the earth. He openly advocated hate against those he terms “Zionists.” Peled said that supporters of Israel would in the end be begging for forgiveness on their knees in front of a “tribunal,” evoking the memory of the Nuremberg trials.”

          Why are your sources always such dangerous radicals?

        • kelly liddle says:

          Gator
          You seem to have extreme views. How can he be anti himself? Just because one does not agree with you does not make them dangerous.

          I did look at your links and am not sure why you provided the second one as it used the same source as the link I provided but was about a survey done in 2008.

          Here is another scarey radical who has had direct instead of indirect family members killed. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2OHD9c-N7U What are you going to call him the Terrorist baby deliverer.

        • gator69 says:

          Nice try Kelly, but calling terrorists terrorists is not radical, even if you stamp your feet when you say it.

          Wow. You found a grieving father who said he does not hate. That’s one!

          Forget hundreds of years of history, go with the Islamic propaganda every time. ;)

      • gator69 says:

        Since you are into videos, how about these poor fellas, one must be Lazarus…

        Or we can examine a compilation of Palestinian lies here…

        Let me know if you find the Israelis doing the same. ;)

        • kelly liddle says:

          According to you the Israeli person (assuming he has not denounced his citizenship) who wrote “Son of a General” is doing the same. You are contradicting yourself in a way. So despite his loss of a neice to Hamas you actually claim what about him?

          The Government of Israel does propaganda things all the time. It may not be so overt and obvious but to suggest the government of Israel is a perfect government is stretching it too far. Have you ever seen your own government lie? I have certainly seen my government lie. Knowing what my government does I am not going to believe either the Israeli government or Hamas. Their is very good reason to treat both with a great deal of suspicion as propaganda is a significant part of the conflict. Now you are suggesting that the Israeli government is beyond all that. Give us a break.

          You seem to think that 100% of the Israeli’s who support the government are correct and 100% of the other Israeli’s are all liars along with every Palestinian person in existance. For someone to say that they do not support the government of Israel does not mean they support the violent activities by Hamas. What is the purpose of the Israeli’s that do not support their government? I do recognise that this shows the Israeli government to at least not be completely oppressive as they do allow these protests which Hamas would not allow the equivalent.

          Gator what is your view on what will happen? Are you a status quo guy who thinks that they will just continue to fight each other.

          Israel is one of only a handful of governments in the last 50 years or so that have claimed territory. This is not the norm of the modern world. Japan and Germany were far worse in WWII than Palestinians in the 60′s war but did not lose 1 square metre of land. Why should Israel be any different they won that war and that is that, no need to take extra territory. If you do believe this is the correct way then Germany should have been forced to give land to Israel and European countries they invaded. Why do we have a double standard?

          I think if you consider things a little more dispassionately you will consider the leadership on both sides to not be the most honest.

        • philjourdan says:

          Kelly, look at it this way. Forget the Israeli press. Forget everything else you hear about them. Now, how long would Australia put up with Indonesia shelling its citizens on a regular basis? How long would ANY country take it? before they merely sterilized the source?

          Israel can be anything you want – from as bad as you want to as good as you want. But there is one undeniable truth. Palestinians live. Israel has not exterminated them, yet any other country would long ago have done so – and justifiably – to protect its citizens, which is the primary and SOLE duty of any government. Israel has shown remarkable restraint. Which leads rational sentient beings to conclude that while they may not be perfect, they are a hell of a lot more humane than 99% of the rest of the planet.

        • gator69 says:

          So you cannot find any evidence of the Israelis being lying, video footage faking, body count inflating, fake ambulance attacks claiming scumbags like Hamas.

          And taking ground from someone who uses it to attack you is wrong.

          Got it.

          Too bad you do not.

          Just keep defending the worst of humanity, it makes you look really great, and people will want to listen.

        • kelly liddle says:

          “Israel has not exterminated them, yet any other country would long ago have done so – and justifiably – to protect its citizens, which is the primary and SOLE duty of any government.”

          Phil
          This point probably goes to the largest thing that seems to be misleading to me. Israel claims it wants a 2 state solution but they are proposing a 1 state solution. The Palestinian authority shall remain subserviant to the Israeli government as it will have not have any national powers like border control or flow of goods. So If your comment is correct then it is a 1 state solution. Hamas or the PA can be considered more like a state governments (providing healthcare schooling etc using aid money from countries like Aus and US, also I suspect paying for the manufacture of the very basic missiles) than a national government as they have control over very few things.

          I agree that Israel shows some restraint but not so sure it is remarkable. With your hypothetical I would prefer to use real life incidents. There was some disputes along the Thai Cambodia border a few years ago and maybe 100 people in total got killed including some civilians, things calmed down and that was the end of it. Escalation should be avoided at all costs. If say 10 people died diplomacy should be used first and a cease fire put in place. Don’t even fire one shot back. Only when diplomacy fails and the death toll keeps rising should any action be taken. The deaths from the unguided low powered missiles are not significant (less than a small Mexican drug gang that has crossed the border) and as such it would probably be better not to fight back, the fighting back has caused more Israeli deaths. Both Hamas and Israel government are to blame as they both seem to keep breaking ceasefire agreements.

          I still want to know what you and Gator see as the final outcome in 50 years or whatever, I have put my position. You have both got me very wrong if you think I am supporting any of the violence from either side. The main difference we have is how things should be dealt with in a hypothetical sense as none of us live there and maybe what is the long term outcome.

          “Just keep defending the worst of humanity, it makes you look really great, and people will want to listen.”

          Gator
          The only limited defense I have made is to the Israeli government saying that they at least are not completely oppressive so I don’t know where that comment comes from.
          Just pointing out other countries have not had territory taken off them and to me does seem like a double standard. The only way to get them far enough away would actually be to have the Palestinians all removed as Israel is very small and Gaza is tiny.

        • philjourdan says:

          Kelly, IN every peace treaty proposed by third parties and agreed to by Israel, not a single one gave them power over the new state. You are falling victim to the old meme. Yes, Israel would not turn a stateless land over to a bunch of anarchists, but not a single treaty called for them running a new state. Not one.

          What has been and is the stumbling block for EVERY treaty is that the Palestinians have always insisted upon maintaining the eradication of Israel in their founding documents. Now idiots and masochists may love such a provision. But you tell me if Australia is going to recognize a country with its own destruction as the central theme of that country as anything other than a threat?

          Sorry, that bird don’t fly. Israel has never insisted upon running a second state. And the Palestinians are too stupid (animal stupid – i.e. they have no conception of the future) .

        • gator69 says:

          Kelly, you seem to misunderstand the situation. You cannot negotiate with a party whose permanent position is your demise. Their religion teaches them to kill Jews, they shout it out in their mosques while brandishing swords. Care to find me am equivalent in the Jewish community?

          Israel: “Let’s talk”

          Arabs: “I want to kill you.”

          Israel: “Let’s negotiate.”

          Arabs: “I am going to kill you.”

          Arafat walked away from peace when Barak offered him 99% of his demands. The Arabs do not want peace as long as there are Jews.

          If my neighbor used his home to launch attacks against my family, I would displace him and not allow him to return. Period. How is that hard for you to understand? Reason much?

        • kelly liddle says:

          “If my neighbor used his home to launch attacks against my family, I would displace him and not allow him to return. Period. How is that hard for you to understand? Reason much?”

          To me that is the initial feeling of anger but the fact is the Israeli’s and Palestinians are not going anywhere and must be neighbours. They will both have to forgive each other for past wrongs one day.

        • philjourdan says:

          Past? The Palestinians have to stop for it to be in the past. So far, they have shown no inclination to do so.

          You may forgive the past, but to ignore the present is suicidal.

        • gator69 says:

          Kelly, are you intentionally missing the point? Is this willful ignorance on display?

        • kelly liddle says:

          “Care to find me am equivalent in the Jewish community?”

          Yes why not. Look at the last half of the video with the pro war protestors calling for violence against leftists and Gazans. I can’t verify the translation of course but if it is correct then these are not nice people. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJ2klbPtvpA&feature=plcp This is not representative of the average Israeli but people who seek violence do exist of course.

        • kelly liddle says:

          “Kelly, are you intentionally missing the point? Is this willful ignorance on display?”

          Gator I don’t think either. Just we have differences of opinion and I am glad that I can talk about it here with you and others without us insulting each other too much. Another way to put it is generally there is a certain level of respect shown on this blog with a few exceptions even when opinions are diverse which I like.

        • gator69 says:

          Kelly, do you not understand the difference between a protest, and a religion that teaches hate? And as you said, you do not even know if the translation is correct. Haven’t we shown you enough examples of Arab disinformation? Yet you still trust?

          You present the weakest of arguments by displaying singular examples, whereas you have been shown by many here, that the ultimate goal of the Arabs is the destruction of Israel and a world caliphate. Their highest holy men preach hate and intolerance to the masses. There is no equivalent in Israel. The Jews just want to live in peace, and the Arabs want them dead. If the Arabs would stop attacking the Jews the conflict would be over. When the Jews stop shooting, the Arabs always stir the pot up again. Hamas are useful idiots for Iran, who have made it their national platform to wipe Israel off the map.

          Quit defending hateful, fascistic, homophobic, ultra misogynistic, homicidal, bigoted war mongers. It is not attractive.

        • kelly liddle says:

          “the ultimate goal of the Arabs is the destruction of Israel and a world caliphate”

          Insert the words “some of” after of and that comment is correct. I put Israel to western standards not dictatorship standards and it has nothing to do with how bad the other lot is. Organisations such as Al Qaeda want the caliphate but outside those small organisations there is little support in the Muslim world, they still want regular countries like me or you. Look at the terrorist organisations in my region Philipines Indonesia Thailand and Malaysia, they by all accounts are failures with the governments being able to crack down on them as their support is low. Southern Thailand is the most problamatic and involves other issues but the majority muslim nations of Indonesia and Malaysia are having no significant problems keeping the terrorists under control. All these terrorist groups want to create a South East Asian caliphate. The Arab world would have more extremists as a proportion but still not highly significant.

        • gator69 says:

          “…we have differences of opinion…”

          The problem is Kelly, your “opinion” would get your family, and mine, killed.

        • kelly liddle says:

          “The problem is Kelly, your “opinion” would get your family, and mine, killed.”

          Gator How did you work that one out?

          I am curious how you view your governments funding of Hamas? “Most of the Gaza GDP of 700$ million comes as foreign humanitarian and direct economic support. Of those funds, the major part is supported by the U.S. and the European Union.” from wiki I know Australia gives about $50 million per year to Palestinian territories. My opinion might save our tax dollars but probably not for a while, even a peaceful Israel/Palestine will probably need financial support for some time. So just remember that every time you get angry at Hamas assuming you are a taxpayer, you are funding them. There is no simple solution.

        • gator69 says:

          Kelly, I’m not trying to sound cruel, but how could you NOT work that one out?

          As far as supporting Hamas through my tax contributions, that is a small part of why I set people straight about just who “we” support.

          I am not conflicted, or angry. I am reasoned.

        • kelly liddle says:

          “I am not conflicted, or angry. I am reasoned.”

          That is good.

        • kelly liddle says:

          Phil
          Here is my statement “They will both have to forgive each other for past wrongs one day.” That one day has not arrived yet and when it does now will be the past.

        • philjourdan says:

          Kelly, now will be the past one day (even tomorrow it will be the past). However the Palestinians have shown no signs of stopping current practices, so the past is their future – until they repudiate it. And so far, they have done nothing to indicate that will ever happen.

        • kelly liddle says:

          Phil
          Historically things just appear to happen. There is a tipping point if you will. Until the 60′s there was no concrete evidence that Aus or US would ever allow freedom to vote in our countries then it happened and there has been no reversal whatsoever. I can’t predict when the tipping point may be but I expect it is much closer than we think and it will involve both sides in Israel.

        • philjourdan says:

          Before commenting, I would have to understand what you mean by the 60s and freedom to vote? Sorry, that does not compute.

          And yes, most of the world is comprised of people that just let things happen, with no planning. That is how we got the Soviet Union, Red China, and of course Nazi Germany.

        • kelly liddle says:

          Phil
          A universal right to vote regardless of race. I am pleasantly surprised you didn’t immeadiately think of it because it means it is so far in the back ground yet only 40 years ago in time.

        • suyts says:

          Kelly, the US granted all the races the right to vote in 1870. Our 15th amendment.

        • kelly liddle says:

          Suyts
          Thanks for pointing out my ignorance. I had just assumed it was to do with the civil rights movement and it appears it was but not in a direct sense http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_Rights_Act_of_1965 . Australia it only happened in the 60s probably partly as a result of what was happening in the US at the time but it was all over and done with immeadiately.

        • philjourdan says:

          Kelly, thanks for the information about Australia (I was unaware of the recent change in your voting laws). Suyts correctly pointed out that the US passed the law 150 and 100 years ago (Suffrage was the early 20th century). We can leave the issue of who should have the right to vote for another time and place.

  8. David says:

    Counting deaths per capita, or in total numbers, says nothing about the morality of either those killed, or those doing the killing. Comparing such things as the midle east to the US is mindless over generalization. The tragedy of the Black culture in the US, and its co-dependence on Government policies which perpetuate it, is related to the Palestianian situation in only one sense. The Palestianian situation stems from a culture of hate and resentment, perpetuated by the Islamist, who pretend to be their protectors and supporters. What the liberal left does to inslave the Black Culture into a cycle of poverty in the US, is done in even greater fashion by the Islamist who teach their children to hate.

    The ONLY reason the deaths per capita is not hundreds of times higher in Israel, is the fact that Israel has a superior and formiddable military. The responibility for the occasional and sad death of palestianian children born to such a violent culture, lands squarely on the Islamist and their hatred, which manifests in direct attacks on civilians, and ends in hiding behind their own children in populated centers. If the milatary balance was reversed, then genocide would be the result.

    • leftinbrooklyn says:

      ‘The ONLY reason the deaths per capita is not hundreds of times higher in Israel, is the fact that Israel has a superior and formiddable military….If the milatary balance was reversed, then genocide would be the result.’

      Along with our formidable military. Or at least the perception that it would be supportive if needed. The weakening of that perception makes the situation only more dangerous: Arabs more likely to be aggressive, Israelis more likely to be pre-emptive against that aggression.

      • kelly liddle says:

        Left
        I think what you say is possibly true but not for sure. As I pointed out the majority of Palestinians do not support violence. There are protests by Israelis against the government for being aggressive also. So I think it is also a possibility that the US threat so to speak could be a lot further in the background and nothing different would happen.

        • leftinbrooklyn says:

          There are a lot more Arabs nearby than just Palestinians. Most of whom have made clear their acceptance of Israel or not, for decades. Or at least, if escalation demands a choice be made, which side they would choose. Tolerance because of the perceived consequences of intolerance (even greater retaliation upon you), is not acceptance.

          Maybe most don’t want violence. But I doubt Israel will go away peacefully. And they still have a ‘government’ that states Israel must go away.

  9. David says:

    Mr Liddle, what do you think a divided Jerusalem would look like? How do you think Jewish and Christian cultures and churches have been protected in the middle east, or for that matter places like Betherlehem, Jericho, Nablus and Gush Katif, once the Arabs were in control?

    • kelly liddle says:

      David
      My personal opinion is that Israel/Palestine will effectively become one country one day. Possibly resembling something like Northern Ireland where the people can choose the passport they desire. I have no idea how long this might take but the alternatives are not likely or desirable. Status quo is what most people suggest to me but the current situation can’t last forever.

      All you mob that followed Moses will make sure that religious buildings in Israel are protected. I am not religious but I don’t think you have anything to seriously fear.

      • philjourdan says:

        Actually, they are very much like Northern Ireland today. Except the Palestinians use rockets instead of planting bombs, and the government is on site, not hundreds of miles away.

    • Jim Masterson says:

      We know what happened when the Muslims took over the Great Library in Alexandria. They burned all the books for fuel. I understand that the library had every book of Euclid. (Of course, Julius Caesar burned the library down. Mark Antony restored the books from another rival library.)

      Then there’s the Taliban’s use of dynamite for non-Muslim religious artifacts.

      Jim

  10. DirkH says:

    kelly liddle says:
    November 19, 2012 at 4:04 am
    “guilty, is beyond me. The Gaza strip may not be occupied by people now but the state of Israel controls things such as electricity, water, trade, personal movement and the military that protects the land and also does not recognise Palestine as a state and therefore it must be a part of Israel.

    To stop all possible rocket attacks you must make the Gaza strip officially a prison as the basic requirements for a rocket are fuel and a metal tube or water pipes, sugar and fertilizer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qassam_rocket Is this the direction that people think Israel should take?”

    Kelly, why have the Arab brothers of the Arab population of Gaza never offered them to leave Gaza to find a new home in their huge countries?

  11. David says:

    Kelly Liddle says…
    “David
    My personal opinion is that Israel/Palestine will effectively become one country one day. Possibly resembling something like Northern Ireland where the people can choose the passport they desire. I have no idea how long this might take but the alternatives are not likely or desirable. Status quo is what most people suggest to me but the current situation can’t last forever.
    All you mob that followed Moses will make sure that religious buildings in Israel are protected. I am not religious but I don’t think you have anything to seriously fear.
    =============================================

    WOW, Kelly, you live in a weird fantasy land that denies reality. Let me start at the bottom. “,,,you mob that followed Moses…A curious and disrespectful was to addres someone Jewish. (which I am not) However the “mob” that folloed Moses has a great deal to worry about. I asked about specifric places for a reason, because they are in areas Israel has already compromised on. The result indicate a great deal to worry about, Your ignorance is astounding.

    There is no Arab or Muslim country in the Middle East where Christians or Jews can freely operate religious institutions. Under Palestinian Authority and Hamas rule, Christians in the West Bank and Gaza have been hounded, terrorized and driven out. Christian Bethlehem is, effectively, no more. The Church of Nativity was defiled by Palestinian Muslim terrorists who turned it into an armed refuge in 2002. Who will protect the churches of Jerusalem from the same fate under Islamic rule?
    JEWISH SYNAGOGUES and holy sites in Jericho, Nablus and Gush Katif have fared no better – they were burned to the ground while Palestinian police looked on. Under Jordanian rule, Jews were not allowed to reach their holy places in Jerusalem at all, while thousands of Jewish graves on the Mount of Olives were desecrated and the tombstones used to pave streets. How can this be prevented under Palestinian rule?
    Here’s the truth: It can’t. Neither the purported Arab rulers of eastern Jerusalem that President Barack Obama so earnestly wants to induct, nor the international community, will competently guard Jewish or Christian people or traditional places.

    Kelly, there is no need to destroy Israel sucess. Jerusalem under Israel has flourished. For Jews, Muslims, Christians, scholars, clergymen, craftsmen, architects, artists, archeologists and tourists alike, the past 46 years have been good times. For everyday citizens too: Never before in its 3,000-year history has the city been such a magnet for simple residency.

    • kelly liddle says:

      “you mob that followed Moses”

      I was referring to all the Abrahamic religions Jews, Christians and Muslims. I admit the tone which I said it maybe is a bit disrespectful and sorry about that.

      I still stand by my fantasy that Israel will be a peaceful country one day and build on what you have pointed out. Your assumption that I am defending the intolerance in other countries or by other groups is not correct.

      • suyts says:

        Yes, Kelly, Israel will one day, be a nation at peace. But, there are things which will happen beforehand. :)

      • cdquarles says:

        Islam? Abrahamaic? Huh? What we call now call Judaism and Christianity definitely are such, by direct lineage. Islam? … I guess I need to do some checking. BTW, the ‘palestinians’ have two states already. They are called Jordan and Egypt, neither of which want these folk to be anything other than what they’ve used them for 66 years now.

  12. gator69 says:

    “Humane Hamas Peacefully Tries Suspected Spies”
    Posted on November 20, 2012 at 11:04am

    Witnesses say masked gunmen have publicly executed six “suspected collaborators” with Israel at a busy Gaza City intersection.

    The Hamas military wing claimed responsibility.

    Witnesses said the six men were pulled out of a van Tuesday, then forced to lie face down on the street and shot dead.

    The bodies then laid in a pile as a mob stomped and spit on them. A sixth body was tied to a motorcycle and dragged through the streets as people screamed, “Spy! Spy!”

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/spy-spy-hamas-publicly-executes-six-suspected-collaborators-with-israel-graphic-photos/

  13. gator69 says:

    “Organisations such as Al Qaeda want the caliphate but outside those small organisations there is little support in the Muslim world…”

    You could not be more wrong, from September of this year…

    “Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad today called for the end of the “hegemonic” powers of the United States and Israel, whom he described as “the uncivilized Zionists.” He said the world would “soon” see new “global management” by the Twelfth Imam, also known as the “Mahdi,” and his deputy, Jesus Christ.”

    You are in over your head Kelly. You do not have all the facts.

    • kelly liddle says:

      Gator
      Yes he went on with all his usual sort of stuff about Israel and US being bad and colonial type powers. Saying that some prophet or prophets will come down to earth and earth will be peaceful. So what! is my comment about that I am not religious and there will be no prophets arriving in my opinion. He also said that Jews Christians Muslims Hindu’s Buddhists and other religious people of the world can all get along with each other and it is governments that cause the problems. I can’t see how his comments relate to anything about a caliphate except with the coming of some prophet or prophets which will bring about ever lasting peace. He also blamed western nations for increasing flood and drought because they use excessive resources along with air pollution. So interesting to see he appears to be a warmist. He rallied against capitalism and claimed that there are more people living poverty than before with larger wealth gaps. Second point is correct but first point is not. He basically said capitalism doesn’t work and some form of socialism is the answer. He said many governments were unnacountable towards their citizens and the hundreds of millions spent on elections meant that the elected officials only cared for a few.

      So for most of the speech he would fit right in at OWS and the other part fit in with others who hold his religious views.

      Just curious now Gator are you now claiming it will be a Shia caliphate and organisations like Al Qaeda are fading fast which are Sunni and about 80% of muslims are Sunni. Like to know how the Shia with such small numbers and only one terror group I have even heard of Hezbollah are going to take over the other religious sect. Many Shia or Sunni do not consider each other to even be muslim.

      Here is the speech you were referring to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X18YiXLE_9Y

  14. kim2ooo says:

    The building in question actually houses Al-Aqsa, the official Hamas TV station, plus the local offices of Britain’s Sky News and Saudi Arabia’s Al-Arabiya. ”The senior [Palestinian Islamic Jihad] cadre was operating in a media building. They weren’t there to be interviewed,” explained the Israeli Defense Force, via Twitter. ”They were using reporters as human shields. We targeted only the second floor, which is where the senior terrorists were. The rest of the building was unharmed. Direct hit confirmed.”

    This amazing combination of accurate intelligence and precision targeting is one of the eleven reasons this time is different from Israel’s previous action in the Gaza Strip, identified by Anshel Pfeffer at Haaretz. It’s actually part of Reasons Number Two and Three:

    2. The ace has already been played – During Cast Lead, Hamas’ leadership barricaded themselves under Gaza’s Shifa Hospital. The IDF was therefore denied a high-profile assassinationand the Israeli public the satisfaction these actions usually invoke. Opening this operation with the targeted assassination of Hamas Chief of Staff Ahmad Jabari means that Israel’s leaders will have an easier time facing their public when they decide to end it. On the other hand, it gives Hamas a burning need for an achievement of its own.

    3. Hamas missiles back to square one – The military build-up in Gaza over the last four years was unprecedented. Dozens of Fajr and M75 medium-range missiles were installed in concrete underground silos, ready to be used at a moment such as this. Nearly all of them went up in smoke during the first few hours of the operation.

    It won’t be easy for them to rebuild the capability once calm is restored. Hamas is no longer on friendly terms with Iran, its main supplier, after they fell out over the Syrian civil war. Israel, for its part, has gotten a lot better at interdicting the smuggling routes. There is a limited number of hiding places in the crowded Gaza Strip and Israeli intelligence has exposed most of them. Hamas will try to reequip but will also be looking for other options to hurt Israel: Launching from bases in Sinai, a return to suicide attacks or, rather, diplomacy? Hamas is back to the drawing board.

    http://www.humanevents.com/2012/11/19/israel-takes-out-four-islamic-jihad-leaders-in-media-building-strike/

  15. gator69 says:

    “Launching from bases in Sinai…”

    “Two major Israeli newspapers are reporting that rockets fired from Egypt have hit Israel. Terrorists in the Sinai Peninsula launched rockets into Israel Friday night,” reports the Jerusalem Post. “The rockets fell near an Israeli village on the southern border, causing some damage, but no injuries.”

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/report-rockets-fired-egypt-hit-israel_663502.html

    They have so many concerned neighbors.

  16. David says:

    Kelly says, “…I can’t see how his comments relate to anything about a caliphate except with the coming of some prophet or prophets which will bring about ever lasting peace. He also blamed western nations for increasing flood and drought because they use excessive resources along with air pollution. So interesting to see he appears to be a warmist. He rallied against capitalism and claimed that there are more people living poverty than before with larger wealth gaps. Second point is correct but first point is not….
    ————————————————————
    I am not certain which point you consider correct. I think more paragraph breaks would be helpfull.
    The first point, and your contention that he was not referring to some caliphate or not is amusing, as that is exactly what he was referring to, and it is what all Islamist, Sunni or Shia, strive for. Among the Muslim Brotherhood’s more influential members was Stayed Qutb, the author of one of Islamism’s most important books, “Milestones“, which calls for the restoration of Islam by re-establishing the Sharia and by using “physical power” or Jihad, for abolishing the organizations and authorities of the Jahili system, which he believed to include the entire world, including the current Muslim societies. Jahiliya, narrowly interpreted as the Arab world before Islam, is considered a state of ignorance. By Islamist extension it means the state of anyone not following Islam and the Qur’an and the Hadeeth. Use of the term “jahili” for modern Muslim society is usually associated with Qutb’s other radical idea “Outbism” namely that reappearance of Jahiliyya (falling back to pre Islamic times) is a result of the lack of Sharia law, without which Islam cannot exist; that true Islam is a complete system with no room for any element of Jahiliyya; that all aspects of Jahiliyya (manners, ideas and concepts, rules and regulations, values and criteria) are “evil and corrupt”; that Western and Jewish conspiracies are constantly at work to destroy Islam. Jahiliya, is the opposite of separation of church and state, with Islam and Sharia as the only state and is the Caliphate Islamic extremist desire to establish.

    Consider the recent New York Mosque controversey. “Feisal Abdul Rauf is the Islamic center’s Imam. He initially called this project the “Cordoba Initiative” and stated that he selected this site because of its proximity to ground zero. Consider the name “Cordoba Initiative” and its historical and religious symbolism throughout the Islamic world. For centuries, the rallying cry of Islamists has been to reclaim their lost medieval Islamic Empire in Southern Spain, known in Islamic history as Andalusia (Al-Andalus). Osama Bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri and virtually all proponents of jihadi Salafist Islam speak incessantly of restoring Al-Andalus. So to radical Islamists, a mosque rising near Ground Zero symbolizes Islamic supremacy, part of a long tradition of minarets built over the conquered religious sites of enemies. Some examples below:

    In 630 AD, Muslims captured Islam’s holiest city, Mecca, and erected a mosque at the Ka’aba — the site of a building reputedly built by the Patriarch Abraham.
    The great mosque at Cordoba was built over the Christian Church of St. Vincent.
    The eighth century Al-Aqsa Mosque rests on the site of the destroyed Jewish Second Temple in Jerusalem.
    The Ayasofya Mosque was built over the Byzantine Christian Hagia Sophia basilica in Istanbul.
    And the Umayyad Mosque in Damascus was constructed over the remains of what was once the Church of St. John the Baptist.

    As these mosques were built to symbolize Islamic conquest over the religion of conquered peoples throughout the ages. The Cordoba mosque near the 9/11 site will be seen in the Arab and Muslim world as symbolic of Islamic supremacy in the face of American weakness and appeasement. Given the long history of mosque-building following Muslim military victories, the building of the Cordoba House on Ground Zero will be seen in the same light as the Muslim conquests of Mecca, Jerusalem, and Constantinople. ( Barrack Obama is not ignorant of history, and yet he supported this.)

    Supporters of the project (Kelly, I suspect that you also are one) might argue that the actions of invading Muslim armies over a millennia ago are irrelevant to the issue at hand in lower Manhattan. However, it is impossible to separate the recent decline of such a trend with the parallel decline and territorial recession of Muslim lands in the second half of the second millennium. Moreover, recent territories that have returned to Muslim rule following decolonization have seen the return of the conversions of religious sites into mosques. Muammar Qaddafi, the ruler of Libya, converted 78 synagogues into mosques in the 1970s. In 1975, the Great Synagogue of Oran was confiscated by the Algerian government and similarly transformed

    So while we are waiting for Imam Rauf’s great Islamic Renaissance to unfold, perhaps it might be better to prepare for the videos that might soon begin appearing throughout the Arab world, portraying images of the Cordoba Mosque transposed over the ruins of the World Trade Center. We can expect it to be another hit, as was the anti-Semitic thirty-part TV series “Horseman Without a Horse,” based on the Protocols of the Elders of Zion forgery, and shown throughout the Arab world during Ramadan in the months following 9/11. Islamist, Shia, or Sunni, are all religious statist of the worst kind.

    Your only valid point is that Islam divides itself. This does not make me comfortable with a billion religious statist here, and several hundred million there.

    I do not know if CAGW, or the attack on Capitalism is the second point you considered correct, but both are highely false. Capitalism is responsible for most of the success of most nations which have built a middle class , and certainly is true of the strongest middle class in history, the USA. As we have moved away from capitolism, we have been losing our middle classs. This has accelerated in the US under Obama, and will continue to, as it is also occuring throughout Europe.

    Concerning your earlier point about hoping for peace in Israel. As I pointed out, in Israel there is peace and religious freedom. Wherever Mulims have taken over, there is not. If you cannot see a strong moral divide between Israel, and the Arab statist, then I feel sorry for you.

    • kelly liddle says:

      David
      I am sometimes a little incoherant. I was just stating what Amadinejad said. The second point being correct was that wealth disparity is getting larger. His other point there is more poverty is not correct at all. Air pollution is somewhat correct but not the droughts and floods stuff.

      I do not think that Islam should be feared unduly, only the Islamists. I have pointed out that Israel should conform to western standards not just be better than Muslim dictators. I don’t know why I have to repeat this it goes without saying I would think. The couple of hundred million muslims to my north do not worry me in the slightest. It is a secular state to a large degree and for the most part does not have problems but this does not mean there is no religious intolerance (it exists in every country in the world that is not generic).

      Look at the figures in Aus 300 000 muslims and a total of 0 terrorist attacks. So does this just mean our muslims are lazy or something? US about 2 million muslims I think and the majority of attacks have been by whites most probably on people they percieve to be muslims or the same as muslims. Fort Hood incident could be considered an attack I suppose so maybe 10 casualties. So even in the US muslims seem to be pretty peaceful. The fact you had a major foreign terrorist attack means you should be wary of what a few foreigners are doing.

  17. gator69 says:

    Well said David.

    “So for most of the speech he would fit right in at OWS…”

    Kelly, do you think that was a coincidence?

    • kelly liddle says:

      I think it was probably a coincidence and Amedinajad actually believes it but it could also be he follows such things and taylored his speech to fit. He is a very hard man to read. I am not sure what he is thinking when he gets in front of the UN and basically sh** stirs, what is he hoping to achieve? I have no idea. Any way time for a new president there next year as they have a 2 term limit like the US.

      • gator69 says:

        Kelly, Ahmadinejad is very easy to read, you just have to read his words, unfiltered by the media. He wants to bring back the 11th Imam. If that does not bother you, you have much to learn.

        And of course Ahmadinejad was pandering to a populist movement, whoring for popular support and good press. It worked on you.

        Muslims are only peaceful when they are in the minority. Mohammad himself preached peaceful coexistence with Jews, until he attained enough power, then Allah “changed his mind”.

        Kelly, you need to reeducate yourself.

  18. David says:

    Kelly says, “US about 2 million muslims I think and the majority of attacks have been by whites most probably on people they percieve to be muslims or the same as muslims”

    Kelly your entire post is lacking in education concerning real facts. To portray understandable objections as bigoted and ignorant is both untrue and divisive as it perpetuates a false view of Americans to moderate Muslims, angers those who feel legitimate in their objection, and reinforces the disrespect in their own mind for those with whom they disagree. If America was truly full of hateful bigots then, after an assault like 9/11 on their country, you would not find hate crime statistics that look like this report on hate crimes in the USA:

    There were 1,606 hate crime offenses motivated by religious bias in 2008. A breakdown of these offenses shows:
    65.7 percent were anti-Jewish.
    13.2 percent were anti-other religion.
    7.7 percent were anti-Islamic.
    4.7 percent were anti-Catholic.
    4.2 percent were anti-multiple religions, group.
    3.7 percent were anti-Protestant

    In the first year following 9/11 anti Jewish hate crimes were double anti-Islamic hate crimes. Every year since then anti-Jewish hate crimes have outnumbered anti-Islamic hate crimes by six or more to one. Unfortunately the media will instead concentrate on those crimes which do occur against Muslims, rarely if ever acknowledging the low overall number of hate crimes against Muslims, or that anti Semitism in this country is many times worse, and hate crimes against Christians outnumber those committed against Muslims.

    So Kelly, you see, your thoughts about “whites” are bigoted, biased, and prejudiced and for the most part, wrong.

    Let us look at what percentage of Muslims in the Middle east supported Osama Bin Laden.
    A 2004 Pew Research survey revealed that Osama bin Laden is viewed favorably by large percentages in Pakistan (65%), Jordan (55%) and Morocco (45%). In Turkey as many as 31% say that suicide attacks against Americans and other Westerners in Iraq are justifiable.
    Kelly, you may be surprised to know that these percentages actually went down during the Bush years, but started to increase again during Obama’s tenure.

    Kelly, I strongly suggest you google the opposite of most of what you read, before forming your perspective. In general, as long as Muslims are below certain thresholds as a percentage of the population they are fine. The higher the percentage, the greater the push for Sharia law, and all the brutalities which that entails. At first Jihad is of the stealth variety, and then it begins to change. The following video series show how some of the above political agenda has been enacted in Great Britain: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYq6_5GYxBM&feature=related And this article talks about Islamism in Europe:
    http://www.terroristplanet.com/2010/02/radical-islam-in-europe-july-2008/
    For greater insight into Islam in the USA, consider this link… http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/upload/wysiwyg/article%20pdfs/Shariah%20%20The%20Threat%20to%20America%20%28Team%20B%20Report%29%2009142010.pdf

    I hope these links are still good.

    • suyts says:

      David, sorry it took so long to allow that through. I’ve a two link limit for comments to go through w/o moderation. Just make a couple of comments saying you have one stuck, and hopefully I’ll be less oblivious.

    • kelly liddle says:

      “So Kelly, you see, your thoughts about “whites” are bigoted, biased, and prejudiced and for the most part, wrong.”

      David
      That’s a bit rough. Saying I should have researched before making a guess would be more appropriate. I am very surprised by those figures. Maybe it is to do with the high profile cases which reach international media like the killing at some siek temple. Why and who are attacking the Jewish people in the US in your opinion?

    • gator69 says:

      Good link David. I have been waist deep studying these guys for the past few years. I used to have casual dealings with them years ago, and they are a spooky bunch. We ignore then at our own peril.

  19. David says:

    Yes Gator, I agree. I cannot fathom our current middle east policy in Libyia or Syria. (not to mention Egypt Israel etc) I think McCain is somehow just ignorant, or befuddled from age. His cheerleading to go into nations and overthrow tin pot tyrants, with zero concept of the cost and or feasibility of successfully installing a peoples elected republic respecting the freedoms this nation was founded on, appears deeply naive at best. I studied the iraq situation before the invasion, and even there, in the face of clear threats, I could not support the invaqsion because of the follow up complications with regard to nation building in Islamic nations.

    George Bush did however actually have a prayer of pulling it off. Any progress (very expensive progress) he may have made appears to be rapidly unraveling under Obama. http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/200/c210.xml this is a good site

  20. David says:

    @ Kelly

    “So Kelly, you see, your thoughts about “whites” are bigoted, biased, and prejudiced and for the most part, wrong.”

    David
    That’s a bit rough. Saying I should have researched before making a guess would be more appropriate.
    ————————————————————————————————————–
    Sorry Kelly, but speaking factually, the word prejudice, coming from “pre-judge” is exactly what you did. As a matter of fact your bias against whites was educated, or more appropriately, mis-educated via the mainstream media, (as well as the other propaganda links you have shown ) which constantly ignores the fact that about 85% of crimes committed against Blacks, are committed by other Blacks. The entire Trevor Martin / Zimmerman incident was an attempt by the mainstream media to mis-educate, with the President doing his best to inflame racial division all along the way. Race baiting is an extremely common political tactic, and as tensions in this matter were all ready soaring, a President had a duty to counteract racial tension. He made no attempt to do this. Instead, in several comments, he directed the whole mindset to further examine this as a racial problem, and he indicated that he himself thought of it as a racial problem, when we had no evidence of that being the case. Of course, the more he is seen as Protecting the Black man, the hihger the percentage of Black vote he gets.

    I will give you some detail on this Kelly, because, unlike most liberals, you appear to be willing to have a real conversation. The President is suppose to be the Leader of the USA, It is it duty to speak for all Americans. Race baiting as a political tactic, provides a lucrative living for the Al Sharpton’s and Jessie Jackson’s of the world. No president should have any part in this.

    Please understand that by the time Obama gave his commentary, this was already a full blown controversy with heavy manufactured racial implications. Black Panther leaders were in fact calling for and threatening violence as was Louis Farrakhan. Not only was Zimmerman being accused of being a cold blooded racist murderer, but the police force as well was being called racist. The national MSM was in a full blown frenzy over this, portraying it on radio and TV as a clear case of a racist white man’s (living in a gated community) hate motivated brutal murder of teenage straight “A” student African American, who’s only crime was just walking down the street.

    The only known facts were that a man by the name of Zimmerman, while conducting a neighborhood watch, (In a neighborhood with very high crime statistics) had spotted someone he did not know from the neighborhood acting what he called strangely, and while following him, Zimmerman then called the police via 911, asking them to respond. Some minutes later he shot and killed the young black man. This was all that was known to the general public. Everything else was pure media driven speculation.

    This was the backdrop for Obama’s comments; a frenzied national media indicating a violent racist hate crime and a white local authority cover up, wildly speculating on scant facts, which were inflaming calls for violent retribution, while the actual facts did not provide evidence for any of the media assertions. It is my view that, as our President, Obama had the duty to do all possible to diffuse the situation. This would have included a POSTIVE assertion that “we currently have no idea of the circumstances or details, and that there is , as of yet, no indication that this was a racially motivated “hate crime” He should have asserted that “the calls of many for vigilante justice were wrong, and those engaging in this have no basis for their assumptions”. He could have stated the truth, which is that “violent white “hate crimes” against Blacks have become very rare in our current society, but if this was the case here, it would be discovered, but as of yet we must let the investigation proceed and find the facts. If this was in fact a hate crime we must not let it deter the progress against racism we have made. Black White Brown and Yellow, almost all Americans condemn racism in whatever form it takes. The rush to judgment is un-American and wrong.” He of course could have called it a tragedy, and if he had to personalize it, which at this point he should not have, he could have said to the Parents of Trayvor Martin;” As a father, I, and ALL fathers deeply share your pain,” or a dozen other sentences to reflect such universal sentiment.

    It would have been far better to say to the parents of Martin, “All parents in this country share your pain, and you have our prayers during this tragic time.” (After all, he is the President and symbolic of all American’s) Obama could have added, “Any death is a tragedy, all racism is a tragedy. It was a tragedy in early March in Kansas City Missouri when, a 13 year old White boy was chased to his doorstep by two Black boys, who doused him with gasoline and lit him on fire, while yelling, “This is what you deserve, White boy.” That however, is unlike what we currently know of the George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin situation, this attempted immolation of a 13 year old boy was CLEARLY motivated by racism on the part of the criminals. Bigotry and racism is always wrong no matter what color it comes in, but in this case we do not even know if racism was involved, so please America, wait for the facts before passing judgment, it is the American thing to do, it is the right thing to do. Do not destroy the progress against hate we are all making, With the progress that the USA has made against racism, Black on Black crime and murder is a far greater problem, with 93% of murdered Blacks, killed by other Blacks.”

    Please let us examine what Obama did in fact say, and how much of the above he succeeded in communicating.. Obama, at the end of a press briefing on other issues, was asked about the Trevor Martin incident, and racism in this country. IMV, the question was a set up, and Obama gave a prepared answer.

    His answer was as follows in quotes…
    “I’ve got to be careful about my statements to make sure that we’re not impairing any investigation that’s taking place right now.” Nothing of what I recommended him to say could impinge the investigation. What did he know about the investigation that could prejudice it? When someone says, “I’ve got to be careful what I say…” they are intimating that they would like to say more, that they know more. As the question was about racism, the implication is that he knows more about the racial aspect of this then he is allowed to say. Otherwise, what is he being careful about? Due to the fact that in his entire statement he says nothing condemning all the wild accusations, then the further indication is that he considers the wild speculation to have some veracity, but he has to “be careful”.

    Obama goes on, “ I think all of us have to do some soul searching to figure out how does something like this happen” This, in conjunction with ”But my main message is to the parents of Trayvon Martin. You know, if I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon.” This is the President of the United States, clearly calling in both the race card, and the American guilt for past racism. I do not need to search my soul for this tragedy, which I had nothing to do with, and may not be related to racial hatred at all. Obama did not tell us to search our soul for how Bob Strait 90, was almost beaten to death and his wife of 65 plus years, Nancy Strait 85, was raped and beaten to death by Tyrone Woodfork, 20, a black man. He did not say that Joe Biden’s main message was to Bob and Nancy’s children because “you know, Nancy and Bob look like they could be my grandparents”

    Obama, with his “search our souls” comment, implies that we all share some collective guilt for Trayvon’s killing. And this is a favorite tactic of the left: We all created the “climate” that led to this. The “climate” argument allows for all sorts of political maneuvering and situational exploitation. It allows MSNBC hosts to go on the air and blame Rush Limbaugh. It gives leeway for congressmen to invite Trayvon’s parents to the Hill to pander to minority members of Congress about Florida’s “stand your ground law” — a law that as far as we know had nothing to do with the killing This absurd “we’re all guilty” mentality is just another way for liberals to escape individual responsibility, and blame every social ill on conservatives.

    The Obama Campaign’s selling of hoodies, (banned in many schools because of the known gang affiliations with hoodies) subsequent to this tragedy, to “show what team you are on” in conjunction with his comment, is only a further flame to racial discord. Elected officials showing up in Hoodies a few days later shows how the racial issue is being exploited. Even IF the hoodies were a pre planned revenue project, someone should have had the sense not to promote them now.

    This entire incident has been politically exploited, and Obama actively participated in this. What is quite astounding is that Obama comments had greater similarity to the comments of New Black Panther leader named Muhammad, who told his group that he was not concerned with rumors of death threats to George Zimmerman, “He should be afraid for his life.”
    Muhammad said, “I’m here today to appeal to the country, particularly President Obama, to do the right thing while you have the power.” He added that “Trayvon Martin symbolizes my son.”

    Possibly Obama liked the metaphor so much that 24 hours later, he used it himself, passing up an opportunity to unite Americans, doing all possible to inflame the prejudice, which you Kelly, expressed in your comments.

    • kelly liddle says:

      David
      I never made any comment about general crime, only what could be called terrorist type activities or extreme hate crime (killings). and of course most blacks are killed by blacks (just as most Muslim terrorists kill other Muslims), I totally agree Obama should not have said anything about the Trayvon case in Florida. Only after a trial etc. should any public official comment the main reason being it is likely to prejudice any trial. Remembering what happened after the Rodney King case I would think that all your politicians should remember to try to calm things down. Considering that was only 20 years ago it should still be seen as a possibility although the risk would be much reduced I hope.

      There is actually only about 2 major differences in opinion we have. 1. Islamist risk in Western countries particularly those countries that are good at assimilation such as US, Canada, NZ and Aus. With some European countries the risk is far higher. 2. How this risk should be dealt with I consider the US to be going down the wrong path (so are we but to a lessor extent) with things such as Guantanamo and NDAA whereas you appear to be suggesting especially by one of your links (themuslimbortherhoodinamerica) these loss of freedoms should actually increase (Frank implied that a muslim should not be trusted in certain jobs in the US), I am not sure what you actual position is ok so don’t say I am speaking about you from prejudice lol. This actually means the terrorists and authoritarians are winning on both sides.

    • kim2ooo says:

      Well said!
      +10

      • kim2ooo says:

        The above was addressing : David says:
        November 22, 2012 at 4:17 am …On The Mr Zimmerman Case.

        • gator69 says:

          Don’t worry kim, noone (with the possible exception of Kelly) thinks you were addressing Kelly.

        • kelly liddle says:

          Oh Gator G’d Day!
          I am curious where I should be sent for reeducation. Apparently I wouldn’t fit in the average reeducation camp because I can’t speak Chinese. Do you have reeducation camps in the US to make people far righties? I assume that is the sort of reeducation you think I should get.

        • gator69 says:

          Happy Thanksgiving Kelly! I do hope all is well as can be on your side of the planet.

          I don’t want anyone to be indoctrinated, as I have stated many many times, and you have my deepest sympathies. I simply want the truth to be known and repeated, because it has no agenda, and threatens noone who is just.

  21. David says:

    James, no problem about the delay. I left for work and never knew of it. (-;

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